Speaker 1: 0:00

I am joined here by the fabulous Marcus who, in his 12 weeks of coaching my God man you slept with seven new women. In the 12 weeks you went on 34 dates. You earned $500 from starting your own photography business. You got to a point where you can now just bask in the feminine energy on your dates without needing to put pressure on yourself to have sex. You really opened up with women and embraced what I like to call autistic honesty. You opened up to your very conservative mother about the fact that you were dating multiple people. You lost three and a half kilograms though more since then, which we're going to talk about in a second.

Speaker 1: 0:36

You improved your sleep. You were able to start taking one day off a week without feeling guilty about it. You did a no-fap streak of 60 days without jerking off. You threw yourself into cold approach. You learned to forgive yourself for things in your past. You started asking yourself what do I want, instead of just doing what you thought you were supposed to do. You became more grateful and you found a lot of inner peace. Not much, just one or two things there. Jesus man, you did so much in 12 weeks. Oh my God. How does it feel at the end of it?

Speaker 2: 1:09

It feels completely life-changing. To be honest, I think I mentioned in my final post that this is probably one of the three most life-changing things I've done, because if I were to do this all by myself, I would have probably spent a year on it, maybe even more because I just needed the right pushes and the right direction to actually to do all this stuff, because I knew I had the drive to do it. I just didn't have the road map to do it. It feels really amazing and I'm absolutely grateful for everything I was able to achieve during those 12 weeks.

Speaker 1: 1:43

I'm grateful for how much you inspired me and everybody else in the Bloody Program. It was insane because it felt like you're one of the clients where I feel like I don't have to do a whole lot or here's a better way of phrasing that there's very little friction between my coaching and you taking action and certain clients and nothing against anyone else who isn't like this but there's just certain clients where I can say something. I can say hey, go talk to a woman today and you'll just go. Yep, I did that. What's next? Hey, go and make $500 from your photography business. You'll come back. It took you like 30 days. You come back. 30 days, yep, so I've made $500. What do I do next?

Speaker 1: 2:21

And again, I love working with everybody, but people like you, man, it feels like you're just ready. You're like fired up and you have that fuel, that hunger, and, like you said, you're almost like a little race car where the wheels are just spinning. And I pick that race car up and the wheels are spinning like crazy and I'm like, okay, you need to face it this way. And then I put you down and boom, you just go off like absolute crazy. So yeah, man, like what an absolute inspiration you are. It's been incredible and you don't even more since then. Yeah, yeah, let's go through each one and we're going to be here for a little while, my friends, so everybody else, buckle in. My God, you did a lot. Let's start with the fun one. Let's start with 34 dates. How the hell does someone go on 34 dates in 12 weeks? Was this 34 dates with 34 different women? Was this like multiple women, multiple?

Speaker 2: 3:12

dates. So I don't have the. It's 34 dates in total. I don't have the exact number of different women, but I would assume it's around like 15-ish women, different women at that time.

Speaker 2: 3:24

And the funny thing is I remember when I came into the group, the first thing I I don't know if it's your tail or somebody some of the coaches, they pushed me to post my Tinder profile. I posted it up, we changed it completely in three days and then I started just started getting a bunch more matches and I was like maybe I can get one date this week. And you're like no motherfucker, just go for three. I'm like, okay, I'm going to try to aim for free. And I think I actually got the three dates during the first week. And then I was thinking, okay, if I can get three dates, then maybe I can push it even further and just like roll with 10 boosts every week for at least a while until I get the results that I want to.

Speaker 2: 4:05

And then I remember like I had a point in the beginning where I was feeding myself up a little bit because I wasn't getting late in the beginning, I was just going on dates but I wasn't really seeing the success because, like I was going on.

Speaker 2: 4:17

What was that? Three dates every week, pretty much an average for the whole coaching, except when I was in Tomorrowland and took a bit of a holiday there but I was like no, but I'm not, like I'm not asking them home and stuff. But I was still gaining so much experience in the beginning and then that just came after a couple more dates. So I remember it being a bit hard in the beginning because I was being hard on myself. But actually the part of just going on the dates that, or just getting the dates was actually quite easy when I just started playing the numbers game really hard, which was 10 boosts a week in the beginning and just like texting a shit ton of girls on Tinder and getting on more apps. Also, like I got on Bumble and I got on Hinge and I tried a bunch of different apps just to get to talk to more girls.

Speaker 1: 5:06

Yeah, I think you had an unwritten rule which, to be fair, a lot of people come to us with this rule and the rule goes something like this if I don't have sex with a woman on the first date, then I'm not man enough or I'm not doing a good enough job, or I'm failing or I'm not living up to my potential. And I remember we had a conversation where I sort of hit the pause button or invited you to hit the pause button and I said why do you have to have sex on the first date? Like, why is it a failure if a woman doesn't want to sleep with you or if you don't ask her back to your apartment, why is that a failure? You still went on a date, you had a connection, you got to practice honesty. I assume you had a good time. And you answered yeah, I had a good time.

Speaker 1: 5:42

I think we often put pressure on ourselves when we have a goal. In the pursuit of that goal, we basically say it's either like go big or go home. In other words, I either fail, I either win or I fail. And it's like no, like there is no fail, there is no like bad date, as long as you learn something. So I think we got you to sort of pause and step back a little bit and enjoy the journey a little bit more, rather than I have to have sex on the first date. Otherwise I failed.

Speaker 2: 6:07

Yeah, I think that was. That was really huge for me, especially all the internal stuff. It mostly came in the beginning, actually, and when I had that set in stone the lace just started coming in, because then I wasn't really that concerned and I was much more chill on the dates that many of the girls even told me you seem very like, you seem to really be enjoying this and be super chill, and that makes me chill a lot. So I loved when, when the girls were telling me that, because it felt like now I can just like sit back, relax, do my thing, which ended up in actually me inviting the girls back because I wanted to have a good time with them.

Speaker 1: 6:42

Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit, let's I mean, we can go two ways here.

Speaker 1: 6:45

We can talk about the actual dates.

Speaker 1: 6:46

Let's start with that, because I think one thing that you you know, I mentioned it a little a couple of minutes ago, but you got to a point where you sort of were able to just be on a date with a woman and I mean I call it connection, call it whatever you want, but you were able to, in your words, bask in that feminine energy and just sort of appreciate and, I guess, be grateful for, like, the person that's sitting in front of you.

Speaker 1: 7:09

I think sometimes we forget that there's another human being in front of us, and not that we mean to, but we're, like, we're so laser focused on like I want to get laid, I have to get laid that we miss what's right there in front of us. We miss the connection, we miss the person, we miss the enjoyment of it. So how did you, I mean, would you call it like slowing down? Would you call it being more present? Would you call it taking the pressure off yourself to have sex on the first date? Like, how did you get to the point where you could actually enjoy your dates and not worry as much about the outcome.

Speaker 2: 7:39

Yeah, I think so. The way I got to that point was that I had that goal that I set for myself, that I want to try to get laid on the first date and make sure that I have the skills to do that. But when I did that, like just once in the coaching I think it was my first layer I got after joining the coaching and I was like you know, like if I'd waited another date, it wouldn't really have been a big deal here. So it was first that thing. And then I realized like I had some first date where I invited them back and I was just sitting on, sitting either in my sofa or sitting out in my front porch, where we were like, where I was like this is actually quite nice, we're just sitting here, chilling, just a nice music, having a cup of tea. I don't really need to get laid right now, I don't even want to, I'm just enjoying this moment.

Speaker 2: 8:24

And then maybe we would sit there for free hours. I would have to do something else and I would just be like, well, I had a really good time. Should we do this another time? And you would be like, yeah, this was really, really fun. Let's just do something like this again at some point. So I think just after all these dates where I was pushing the numbers really hard and just trying to get more lays, I realized you know, this is really fun if I just let myself have fun on these dates and I don't really always have to push for lays if I don't want to and if I want to, that's also fun. But it depends like on the date and on the state I'm in that day and what I want for that date.

Speaker 1: 9:02

I would say Was there a story, did you have sort of a story in your head of like and a lot of guys have this if I don't have sex with her, you know on the first date or the second date or whatever, if I don't have sex then I'll lose her, so to speak. She'll lose interest, she'll leave. You know, I won't, I won't lock her in, as if you got to like lock her down, like marry her or something. Was there that kind of story in your head?

Speaker 2: 9:24

I think I've had some programming from years ago where at least maybe in the first date I don't have to do something, but I should do something. And then on the second date, if I haven't kissed her by then, then I'll probably lose her. She's gonna think I'm a loser, who'd? Yeah, something like that. And it was probably from watching a bunch of red pill constant back in the day, I guess. But I have that has stuck with me that I have to actually make a move quickly, otherwise she's got another. She's not gonna appreciate me. But then I started reflecting on it during the coaching and I realized, well, if we're having a good time and we just spend three hours together or one and a half hours together, whatever it was, doesn't doesn't really matter. Like, if it's if it takes me five more hours to get laid on another date or whatever, like I don't really see the big deal there.

Speaker 1: 10:11

Yeah, and I think it can come from place of fear. I mean, it is fear talking, isn't it? Like what if she loses interest? Blah, blah, blah. I like to flip that around and say okay, what are you actually trying to? What are you trying to make happen here? Well, you're trying to show her that you're interested. That's the whole point of making a move. So what if you just say that, like what if you literally just say I'm having fun, I'd like to see you again? Or man, you're so pretty, or would you like to come back to my apartment? Hey, can I kiss you?

Speaker 1: 10:37

You know any of these different things that you can say to tell the truth, to tell the person I'm interested in you. And it sort of comes from this place, this pressure that we often put on ourselves of, like, I have to make a move, I have to have sex with her, I have to, like, lock her down. And women do the same thing. By the way, you know, I got to keep him interested in me before he goes off to someone else. What if you just say the thing that you're trying to get across anyway, you're, I like you, yo, I'm having fun, yo, you're cool, I can't wait to see you again.

Speaker 1: 11:01

I had a lot of fun, let's meet again. And that was definitely something that you embraced, particularly with like kissing. Yes, because you had all this pressure on yourself, man, that so many people do with it, like how do I kiss her, how do I like escalate, how do I make a move? And I was like yo, dude, just be honest, just say I would like to kiss you. And how was that? Because you absolutely just embraced that on a ship, man, you're just like I would like to kiss you.

Speaker 2: 11:28

I'm really laughing now because, like I remember the first time I did it, I think you you told me that you could just ask.

Speaker 1: 11:36

and then I was just saying what you want, I like you, can I kiss you?

Speaker 2: 11:40

And then I was on a second date, I was having her in my sofa. I was like I do, I really like you. Can I kiss you? Do you want to kiss me? And then she's like yeah, I really want to kiss you. And we just did. I was like wait a minute, like can you actually just do this? And I just did it. And then, yeah, it worked wonders. And then I thought this is like a big cheat code in like, compared to having to always try to read signals which I used to do, and then I'm like you know, I'm just gonna, yeah, so much pressure.

Speaker 2: 12:08

And now I'm just gonna I've done this multiple times now where I'm just like I want to kiss you, you want to kiss me, and then she's like I don't have. I don't think I've actually gotten to know yet from doing that.

Speaker 1: 12:19

So yeah, yeah, and even if you get it, no, it's like cool, you don't want to, and then you can talk about that. You can say, okay, cool, like you. Just you feel like we're moving too fast. Would you like to next time? And sometimes they say you know you have a conversation about it. She might say, yeah, I kind of like you, but I just don't want to move too quick. Yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2: 12:35

Yeah, yeah, I also got that with asking them like right after, do you want to move to the bedroom? And then maybe she's like, oh, this is actually too fast for me and like, in this current state, in this current time, so can we just wait till the next day? Yeah, sure, like I'm having fun here just kissing you, so I don't mind.

Speaker 1: 12:53

Yeah, and I think it's taking a big part of this mindset. Basically, what we're talking about is you can call it a million different things. Some people call it abundance, mindset, outcome, independence, not giving a fuck, like I don't give a fuck, call it whatever you want but essentially it's it's taking away that expectation, taking away that need for our partners you know, like our sexual partners or people that we're on a date with to give us something and just sort of embracing what's there in that moment and saying, hey, look, right now you know you don't want to kiss me, cool. What do you want to give? Like, what do we want to enjoy together? What do we want to participate in together? Do we want to just hang out? Cool.

Speaker 1: 13:32

And, by the way, if any of this is something and you know this, I'm saying this for the audience if any of this is something you don't want to do, like, let's say you're on a date with someone and you say would you like to kiss? And the person says no, thank you, and then you go why don't really want to just sit here? Then, like, I kind of want it to make out, I'm kind of done for the night, I don't want to just keep hanging out. Just just be honest about that. Just say like, well, look, you know it's getting late, I'll probably call it a night. I had a hell of a lot of fun. I'd love to see you again. Or if you don't want to see them again, that's fine too.

Speaker 1: 14:00

But it's taking away that neediness for something, taking away that pressure, and then, funnily enough, as you've already figured out, the fact that you're then not needy, the other person can tell.

Speaker 1: 14:12

And then when you do ask for that thing, it's so much easier for them to say yes because they're not feeling this resistance of like, what's he trying to get out of me? You know how do I know that he'll respect my boundaries? What if I say yes to this? But then he pushes me too far later on, because you've just said what you wanted, because there's no neediness or attachment there, because you're not expecting something, you're just asking. And if they say no, hey, that's beautiful, cool. It enables people or it makes people feel a lot more comfortable to say yes, knowing that they're allowed to say no. It's so much easier to say yes if you know that no is an option. But if you think, man, this person's going to be upset or they need me to say yes. It just makes you want to fucking resist a little bit, because you don't know how far this is going to go. You don't feel safe.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yeah, exactly, and I think that feeling safe is also a keyword because, like some girls have told me that they really respect that I respect their boundaries so much because some guys have just like tried to push over those boundaries and I'm just like, yeah sure, like I absolutely don't mind, like if you don't want to do it, then I'm not going to get enjoyment of doing it with you. So I'd rather wait, or like, if you're not ever comfortable with it, that's fine, but like I respect that you, you don't want to do this right now. So let's just back off and have fun and just chill together. Let's talk together, make out or whatever you're comfortable with.

Speaker 1: 15:30

Yeah, and I said this to you and I've said this to so many people, I've said it in content. You know, when we put that pressure on ourselves of like, okay, it's the first date or the second date or whatever, you know, I have to have sex tonight, otherwise I'm either not man enough or not good enough, or this person won't like me, or they'll leave, or whatever. You're putting that pressure on yourself to have sex in that moment I've said this so many times it's like you're chill, you're probably just going to have sex on the next date. But if you right, but if you push it and you pressure and you go, I have to do. It's now or never. The person understands that feeling of like it's now or never and they resist a little bit because they feel like well, this is almost like I don't know if unsafe is the right word, but it's, it's pressure, it's like a pushy sales person. Right, we resist. We naturally resist because we're like I don't know what this is. I feel like you're pushing and I don't feel like I've had a chance to make a decision. I don't feel like you're letting me or leaving, giving me the space to make a decision. I feel like you're trying to make the decision for me. I just want a little bit of time to think about it.

Speaker 1: 16:23

They go and then you know there's a chance they come back, there's a chance they don't. But if you just put less or no pressure and it's okay if you put a little bit of pressure, you don't have to be perfect, like I wasn't perfect, you weren't perfect. But if you can do your best to put as little pressure and have as few expectations as possible, I mean, half the time the person leaves and then they just come back a week later and they go. Hey, thank you for respecting my boundaries. Now I can trust you and now I'm going to do some filthy, wild, kinky, amazing, passionate, intimate shit with you, because I can fucking trust you.

Speaker 1: 16:53

I've literally said no and you've said yeah, that's cool. So now I know we can get down and freaky and try some wild shit and if I don't like it at any point, I can just say welcome me, stop and you'll go. Yeah, of course we can. So I've said this a million times sex is easier, sex is more intimate, sex is more passionate. It's definitely wilder and kinky and filthier when you put less pressure. It's just easier.

Speaker 2: 17:14

Yeah for sure. Yeah, I would say there is definitely a like direct correlation between me just chilling the fuck out and having better sex and just like having more lace also after that. Because, like I remember, there was this this night where I couldn't sleep. It was just in the beginning of the coaching, where it was just on the cusp of my firstly and I think I woke up in the middle of the night. I was like I just get a gut, got to get this off my chest.

Speaker 2: 17:41

So I wrote this long post that I feel like I'm failing and I'm like putting all this pressure on myself and you're like, you recorded a, you're sitting in your podcast studio. So we recorded a, I think a half an hour podcast from me and the title of that was Marcus, just relax, you're going to get late to nine, I think. Literally just the next day I got late just because I was like okay, yeah, I see I'm putting way too much pressure on myself. The next day, I'm just going to chill the fuck out. And then that worked out super well, because then suddenly she could probably feel at that point that I was just not having any expectations. I was just chilling out and just trying to relax, have a bit of fun and just see what happens.

Speaker 1: 18:23

Yeah, and that's. That's a beautiful summary of it. You're really just seeing what happens, and the same thing applies to basically all of your goals. It's a cheat code, but I don't know if I'd phrase it as that. It's more like just the truth of the universe that if you just ask for something and you can be as non-needy as possible and allow space for the person to say no to you, you get things a million times more. People are way more open to saying yes to you Again, if you allow them the space to say no, it's so much easier to say yes, and you absolutely figured this out.

Speaker 1: 18:54

When it comes to money, we had big conversations because you had taken a photography course or, I think, a coupler course. You'd paid money for a photography course that was helping you set up a business and make money, and I think you had the goal of like $500 by the end of the year. Was that right? Yes, that's correct. Yeah. And so you'd come to us for coaching only for your dating life, and you had no, like you didn't want coaching on business or anything. But I remember early on I was like listen, mother fuck, I'm going to coach you with business too, because, like, I care about this stuff as well. We're going to get you the sex life thing. That's easy, that's like a piece that won't even take any effort, and we'll work on this business shit and a bunch of other stuff. And I remember we had conversations where I just I gently, because I was curious I was like, hey, marcus, like where are you out with the photography course that you're doing in the business course? Like, do you want to push from us? Like can we do anything to help? Like what is the goal there? What have they taught you so far? And you said to us they've said that I will. You know, I have to do all this stuff and then I'll earn $500 by the end of the year, which was, you know at the time, like I don't know five months away or something. And I remember reading that and I wrote this to you. I was like, okay, with all due respect to that photography course, what the fuck, five months to earn $500?. Like I remember literally saying what the fuck? And I was like, look, I don't know anything about that course. I hope that it's taught you some amazing shit. But, dude, you could earn $500 this week. You could earn $500 today.

Speaker 1: 20:19

I have a friend that did that, that went door knocking and offered to clean people's houses and he had no business cards, no material, nothing. He just said can I do some yard work for you and clean your house and washer windows and that shit? And he made $600 in like 12 hours and it was hard work but like he knocked on something like 100 houses and made that money. And so I was like dude, you could make $500, like now. And you were sort of like that doesn't seem possible, how? And I was like you just go and ask for it. Like literally, you just go and ask for it, and it's such a radical notion. But it's also so unbelievably simple of like if I want something, I can just ask for it, and you hit the ground running. You know, you asked a bunch of friends, you asked a bunch of family. I think did you end up going and cold approaching strangers on the street as well?

Speaker 2: 21:03

I think I did try it, but then, because the weather was so bad that week, I was like writing in the group that I remember what am I going to do? It's like I tried to come up with solutions with the help of you guys, but then I think you that's when you said just go. Do you have 24 hours?

Speaker 2: 21:18

Go ask family and friends and see if you can make the first $5 at least. And then I did that. Then I came back, I made 25, like after asking a few people. And then, because the rain continued to be, the weather was really bad. Then I thought I know more people, I can just get in touch with more people.

Speaker 2: 21:37

And then I just happened to get in touch with this guy who needed a photographer, who has a small business in my network, and he was like you can come down for coffee if you want. And then he asked me do I have some work you can send me? And then, because I'm doing a 365 photography project, I had a bunch of portraits laying around, so I just collected those up, send it to him. And then he was like how much, how much? How much do you want your pay, your what do you call that? So how how much was my pay? Basically, that's what he asked me. So he wanted me to go first and say that and I knew what he was doing for his photo shoots, which was what is that? Around $600 or something. So I was like let's split it, you find the clients and I do the photo shoots. He was like sure, that actually sounds fine.

Speaker 2: 22:20

So I went from basically having no stream of income from photography to doing shoots that are almost $300, like $290, which is insane. Like when that happens, I was thinking, wow, I think the universe is really lining up. Now I've started asking for money and now it's happening, and then I did two shoots and I made $500. And since then I've had like I had one week where I did three in a one shoot. So like the clients, they got a bit of a discount, but I basically like did three shoots for basically one photo shoot for 600, I think, because I had like all three guys just paid 200 and we did them in the same like three hours, just doing the same photos for each of them.

Speaker 1: 23:01

So in three hours you earned more than what you thought it was going to take you to do by the end of the year.

Speaker 2: 23:06

Yeah, pretty much. It's pretty incredible. So I don't know how much I've earned at this point, but I think it's like around 1.5k or something from photography.

Speaker 1: 23:16

Oh yeah, brother. So triple, triple what you thought it was going to take, you know, five months to earn and you earned that in what like two months.

Speaker 2: 23:24

Yeah, I guess it's. It's only been around two months. It's actually only been two months since I started trying to make the money and when I came into coaching I had made $14, which is like so I've 100 X my income from photography my lifetime earnings from photography that's, that's crazy to think about.

Speaker 1: 23:44

Yeah, and this is. I remember I left you a very big, like long, voice message when you announced that you made $500 and other people did too, because we were all so bloody excited for you. And I remember saying to you this should show you what is possible. Like we have ideas of what we think is possible. You know, you thought maybe I can earn $500 by the end of the year and it's like you smashed through that, Like that was just nothing compared to what is possible.

Speaker 1: 24:10

And I've done the same thing myself with my own coaching business. I keep like smashing through these barriers where I think there's no way you could charge this much money. There's no way anyone would pay it, there's no way anyone would pay it and then be happy at the end of it. Like you have all of these limiting beliefs and just every single one of them is such utter bullshit that I'm now in a position where I sit here and like anytime I have that limiting belief where I'm like no way someone would pay I don't know, pick something crazy. No way someone would pay $100,000 for coaching. And I hear that in my head and I'm like no, it's probably bullshit. And I know it's bullshit because some of the mentors that I look up to charge like $500,000 for a year of coaching and so, like I know this, Tony Robbins, for instance, charges millions of dollars to work with, like sports stars and people like that. So these things are complete and not a hogwash that we think are impossible.

Speaker 1: 24:56

But man like you absolutely destroyed that limiting belief and it was literally just asking people and this is what I mean when I say when we give ourselves permission to go wholeheartedly after a goal and to actually fucking try and to just start asking other people or asking the universe, however you want to phrase it. But we ask other people would you like to participate in this? Would you like to pay me? Would you like to have sex with me? Would you like to go on a date with me?

Speaker 1: 25:20

Whatever it is, it's so mind blowing that the universe opens up, people open up. People see that like, oh okay, this guy's doing something cool or he's offering me some service or he seems interesting enough, maybe I'll go on a date with him. People are like desperate to say yes, almost like they want to be part of that shit. We have such a closed minded view of it at the start we think no one's going to say yes, who would give me money? And it's like people who want photos, who would go on a date with me, People that think you're interesting and want to go on a date with you Like lots of people, but yeah it's just been such an eye open.

Speaker 2: 25:52

It's definitely a like I don't know. I think before I came into coaching I was thinking I don't have that much to give. But now I realized like I'm giving out so much value to people and I'm getting value back, and that's both in terms of dating and also making money, because those guys that I've taken photos of many of them, they've reached out to me and they said oh my god, I'm getting like tons and tons of matches from that one photo shoot. And when I looked at the photos I was thinking they're pretty good. He's going to get a lot more matches, but they are super grateful for that set of photos, just that one photo shoot that I took of them. And of course, they are all like they are almost some of them. They are asking me so, if I'm, if you have time at some point, do you want to just hang out, because you seem like a super cool guy. So I'm also kind of making friends from it, which is kind of cool, and meeting new people.

Speaker 1: 26:42

Yeah, and so many people listening to this right now will be thinking the same thing that you just said. When it comes to business, like, or anything really business, dating, friendships, whatever they'll be thinking but what do I have to offer? I don't have any value to give. It's like motherfucker. If you just smile at someone, that's worth the world and I've said that to people. Did I say it to you? Or am I thinking of someone else in the coaching group where someone was asking about, like, I want to make friends with people that are further ahead than me, but I'm not sure if I would have a lot to offer? And I said even just being positive, like being a positive person to be around, is something to offer. Was that you or was that?

Speaker 2: 27:18

am I thinking? I don't think that was me, but what you did say a lot was that you gave me permission to just ask for a bunch of stuff, like a lot of the time, which was very valuable for me, definitely, because I didn't. I didn't really give myself that permission in the beginning, but as soon as you're like okay, I, andy, will give you permission to do this or maybe, maybe you said something like I, andy, will give your new permission to give yourself permission, and things like that.

Speaker 2: 27:42

Now it's like, yeah, okay, what's like of course I can just go ask, and then that that gave me like that, really tennis x, my results in terms of both dating and money there.

Speaker 1: 27:53

Yeah. And when we're sitting there thinking you know I don't have anything to offer literally just asking, like saying, would you? You're cute, would you like to go on a date with me? Hey, would you like any photos done? Or if you're I don't know a musician or something, can I teach you, can I give you a guitar lesson? Like literally just asking.

Speaker 1: 28:11

That is giving people something, because you are showing two things or you're giving them two things. One, you're showing insane courage, which inspires a lot of people. So you have given them something, you've given them some inspiration. Then the second thing that it offers is a chance to be part of your journey, and especially when we're talking about something like money, or even if we're talking about dating, people want to come along for the ride. They want to like, grab on to your coat tails and Come along and go. Wow, this person's on some sort of journey or mission. You know they're building a business or they're very ambitious. I would love to go on a date with them. I love to come along and be a little part of or maybe a big part will see how things go, but I'd like to be a little part of their story because they seem like they're on a fucking mission and so anyone listening you might be thinking but I don't have anything to offer. Yes, you fucking do. You asking Is something that you have to offer, and don't just take my word for this, don't just take Marcus's word for this. Do what Marcus did, do what I've done.

Speaker 1: 29:07

Go out and actually ask people. You're not gonna believe us if we're just to fucking retard sitting on a. You're not a retard, I'm. I count as two retard, so you're zero retard and I'm too. So, on average, two retard sitting here on this webcam Telling you to go do something. No, you won't believe us.

Speaker 1: 29:23

Go out and actually do it today. Going ask a random stranger. Go ask five random strangers today. Can I have one dollar if I make you smile and then just do something to make them smile, tell them a joke, just smile at them. Hell, you can even say actually I'm sorry, I'm not very good at making people smile. How golly gee, do you think I could just have a dollar? Anyway, that was my best effort. Can I have a dollar please? I'll give you a big high five and people will go fuck it. I'll give you a dollar because you offering me a high five.

Speaker 1: 29:51

They go up to people and say, if I give you a really good high five, if I give you an amazing hug like the best hug you've ever had in your life, would you give me a dollar? If it's like, if it's the best hug you've ever had, or even if it's in the top five hugs you've ever had, ask five people. Someone's gonna go okay, that's pretty cute, sure, I give me a hug. And then you hug them and they go right, I'll Venmo, you roll, I'll pay Pal. You a dollar, sure. And so there's, there's money out there floating around, there are dates, there's sex, this intimacy, this friendships, floating around outside in the world. But Was sort of scared to ask because what will write that someone's gonna say no, yeah, people will say no.

Speaker 2: 30:28

So what? I think? Yeah, generally the world is your friend if you open up to it. And of course, there's gonna be rejections, that's part of the game. But, like, generally the, if you allow yourself to go ask strangers, go ask friends and family, go ask people that you know, then You'll probably find, more often than not, people are more than willing to help you. And also in terms of, yeah, asking girls out on dates, I feel like some people they will ghost you, but many of them they'll be very grateful that you also Ask them out and like, especially during I remember when I came into the coaching I didn't, I was very hesitant to To say straight up that I was looking for something casual.

Speaker 2: 31:08

But now I'm like directly saying that, just so you know I'm like I'm just looking for something casual. But if you're up for like fun, fun conversations, nice walk and just to see if we click, then let's go for a walk. And most of them they're like when I meet them on the date, they're like it's. I'm really happy that you're so direct and so Like up front, because most guys aren't, they're trying to lie and they're trying to Like if they might say they're looking for something serious just to get me on a date. But they're really not Like. A recent girl told me that, exact those exact words, but you're totally up front, which is very like, comforting for them to know that I'll be honest with them and they know what they are. They know, they know the person, or as much as you can, from just like a couple conversations, the person they're meeting.

Speaker 1: 31:55

Isn't trying to get something. Yeah, you're showing I'm not trying to get something from you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's. Let's jump back to dates. I guess you went on 34 dates. Some of those were with the same women. You also slept with seven new women in 12 weeks for, of whom you're still seeing, and that's probably even. There's probably even more since then, because you finished the coaching like a month or so ago and you even had you slept with three women in a four day span.

Speaker 1: 32:22

You just went like crazy. You just like seriously. Again, you were the person where I could just say like you got this, give yourself permission, or you know, a couple of times I said what you said Marcus, I give you permission to go for your dreams. And then you just went crazy. So what was it like? Having that much sex, that much connection, that much intimacy, that much kinky shit, and then getting to that point that I know that you got to where you were like do you know what? Maybe I don't need to just have more sex, like that's kind of gonna just happen. I don't have to force it anymore, I can just enjoy it.

Speaker 2: 32:57

Yeah, so I remember I had this number in my head when I came into the program. I gotta get 50 lays, because that's like the high number that's what I made up pretend number.

Speaker 1: 33:06

Yeah, I used to do the same shit for you.

Speaker 2: 33:09

Apparently I thought I've made it when I hit 50 lays, but then I'm a real man when I get to 50 something like that, basically, and then I hit 30, and then cameras like 30 is a high number, dude, I was thinking oh, yeah, kind of yeah, that's a lot of sex.

Speaker 2: 33:25

If I asked, like any normie, they'll be like I know some of my friends. They're like You're like the biggest player. I know like I've been with five women and you've been like with six times the amount of women. How can you not be be seeing yourself as like some kind of stuff there? And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe that this is just my head, that number of 50. So I started to Evaluate all of that and then I think, after a couple more lays that I got, then I realized you know, it's actually more fun just to enjoy the company of women and then, like you said, it'll probably come automatically that maybe I'll get to 50 lays at some point anyway, because, like I'm, if I keep meeting women, then of course it's gonna happen again. If Lee, but yeah, it was like it was a lot of fun, but it was also it opened up a lot of stuff for me. Like I had my first Experience with the idea again, I would say, during the coaching, because I think it's just from having a lot of sex really that my body was not used to doing that. So I was thinking is there something wrong with me, since I'm starting to have a D, like what is going on here. But then, of course, in the group I posted about it and you guys who reassured me that is actually quite normal and probably most guys. They Experience this. But like, we're like I've never really been talking about it much with my friends so I just thought this is only me, that's that this is happening to, and stuff. But then, yeah, I've got some tips. I bought some Seattle is and I've taken that a few times and I have. I bought the magic wand also during the coaching in order to, like, try to have fun with sex toys as well, try that out. And that was really ensuring in the beginning that if my dick doesn't work, I can use my fingers, I can use my mouth, I can use toys and stuff. So I'm putting my pressure off of Me actually have to be having to perform because, like, having the magic wand is just for me a big cheat code like I've just used that made a grill orgasm and she's like, oh my god, this is so amazing and I can do whatever I want basically after that. So that part was really great.

Speaker 2: 35:25

And then, yeah, just the whole process of Like I felt like I was becoming a bit of a machine at some point. Like I was just statistically asking girls back and they would all like most of them would say yes, and then I would ask them do you want to kiss me? Like we talked about earlier. Lot of them like would say yes, I think all of them. And then some of them wouldn't sleep with me immediately, but then some of some of them would later, because I just, like I said, put the pressure off and said that we don't have to do anything today if you don't, if you're not comfortable with that, and then later they would be comfortable with it on the next date.

Speaker 2: 35:58

So, like going back full circle to the whole, I have to get laid on the first date. I realized, like some of these states, I got laid on the fourth date and it was just as amazing as if I had been on the first date, because now I got to know the person better and now it's kind of it's a different experience to having a first date lay. Having a fourth day late. Both are fun in each of like. First day late is very spontaneous and very fun in that way. But the fourth day late was much deeper. We talked about a bunch of stuff beforehand and I felt like a bigger connection to that person compared to, say, one of the other girls where I just got laid once with her on a first date and that was it.

Speaker 1: 36:37

Yeah, you're basically talking about being open to whatever experience happens and obviously you have some direction in that right. Like you're the one making the moves, you're the one saying do you want to kiss me? You know, do you want to come back to mind? But being open to whatever happens after that. A really good quote on this sort of stuff and it wasn't directly about sex, but it applies here is by one of my favorite authors, david Hawkins, who says you are responsible for the intention and the effort, but not the outcome. Like the outcome is due to a million other variables and factors that are not personal, they're not anything to do with you.

Speaker 1: 37:10

Like the other person might not want to sleep with you. The other person might be in the case of a woman on her period. Her friend might have just gone through a breakup and so she's emotional herself and she doesn't feel like having sex. Because you think in you know, I'm gonna go home and give my friend a hug and make sure she's okay, she's not feeling fucking horny in that moment. There's a million reasons why someone might not want to sleep with us or become a coaching client or any of these sort of reasons, and so all you can do is sort of shoot your shot, do your best, improve yourself as a human being and then ask. And if they say no, they say no. If they say yes, they say yes, and the rest is sort of left up to. I don't know if you want to get hippie about it. The universe left up to fate, whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 2: 37:54

Yeah, I think yeah, just to answer that if I would say I realized, like after coming to coaching program, that the process that I'm doing is quite simple, like it's just going on a date that's convenient for me, that I thought in the beginning maybe I have to go to a bar which is far away, but then I realized I can just go for a walk and then after the walk I can ask them back, then I can kiss them, then I can have sex with them. It's like a really simple formula to if we have a good connection to actually get laid, so I'm just gonna like do that and then if I get laid, I get laid, and if I don't, I don't. And if I Like, if they come home with me but don't want to kiss me, then I can always just do the same plan next time or just invite them home directly and just go from there. Like it's so, so simple.

Speaker 2: 38:38

And before I used to complicated quite a lot with what I had to do, like all this, like when, when I started getting into dating and improving my sex life, I got really into a lot of theories and stuff, all this game stuff, and I and I think I just got overwhelmed with that because I thought, well, I have to do 30 different things to get laid, apparently, like all these leading stuff and like, like there's so many theories that I don't remember anymore, but there's like different concepts that I basically thrown them all away and now it's just like to the simple. I try to build it, I try to have a connection with the girl and then I invite her back if I feel that.

Speaker 1: 39:14

Yeah, and it's both genders that go through this. You know, men read like pick up artist material and some of that stuff is really helpful, like it, you know. But Men over complicated with the pickup artist stuff. Women will over complicate it with, like you know, cosmopolitan magazine and all of that saying like here's 10 ways to make him fall in love with you, and it's like 10 ways to know if he's into you or not, 10 ways to read his mind, and it's like why don't you just fucking ask hey, do you like me? Hey, would you like to hit on me? Hey, would you like to get a coffee with me?

Speaker 1: 39:43

And a lot of this stuff is so I found basically everything is infinitely, or is allowed to be infinitely more simple than we make it out to be dating. Absolutely, you can literally just say to someone Yo, I think you're attractive, would you like to go on a date with me? That's it. Like you can literally just say that business, all my fucking god. To people complicate business, they complicate marketing, they complicate sales. Do you have any idea how many youtube videos, books, courses, podcast I have taken on like sales techniques and like how to be a good I've done like Jordan bell font, like the wolf of Wall Street. I've done his training program, I've done Dan Henry, who I kind of like Dan Henry's, but like I've done all of these different courses and ways to sell to someone. And then I don't know if you remember, because at this point it was, like you know, four or five months ago, but do you remember like what our sales call together was like. When I'm selling to you, how did I sell to you?

Speaker 2: 40:38

Yeah, so I'm pretty sure that. So I try to sign up for the coaching. I looked at the prices and then I was yeah, I was just like if I can get it, because I know you're raising your price at the time. So I'm like if I can get it at this price, I'm down to do the coaching at what was at the beginning of June. And then you just like record the six minute video where you said, hey, marcus, do you legend?

Speaker 2: 41:02

And then something about like the sign up process. And then you ask me do you want to get like an initial call? Do you need that? Or like what do you feel that you need right now? And I'm like you know I'm actually very set on this and if I feel like you've screened me quite well from the whole screening process when you signed up, so there, really, there wasn't even a sales call. You would you just like? You put out so much about much value. I've been following you for two years and I was like you know, I know this is like the best coaching that I'm gonna get for me right now. So you didn't have to sell me. You already sold me with all your the free material. You have all the articles of the YouTube videos.

Speaker 1: 41:39

And that's how all of my sales set. I didn't even call them sales calls, because I don't like that way of thinking. I just call them calls to see if you want to sign up for coaching. And that's all I ever do. Like, when I go on those calls with people and I did just, I recorded you a message but when I get on a call with someone because they're not sure if they want to sign up, I literally just say, like, do you want to sign up for the coaching? Like, would you like to join the coaching program?

Speaker 1: 42:05

And sometimes they're like, hell, yeah, okay, cool, do you want to take a payment plan? Do you want to pay in full? Sometimes they're like, oh, I'm not really sure. And then I will say do you want me to push you or do you want to go away and think about it? What do you want? And then sometimes they're like, oh, I think I want you to push me. Okay, how do you want me to push you? Like, what do you need from me? Do you want me to push you? Like really hard? Do you want me to just, like, give you a gentle push?

Speaker 1: 42:29

Is it just that you're not sure about something? Like what do you want and it's like the most like non-sales shit, and my dates are the same and yours are now too as well. Like making friends. You don't have to go in there and be like Captain Charming and have a sense of humor and all of that. You can just be like yo, I'm looking for friends. What's your name? I'm Andy. That's cool. What do you want to talk about? Like, you don't have to be amazing at any of this shit. You can use techniques if you want to. You can use pickup artist stuff. You can use sales techniques. There's nothing wrong with that stuff. Just don't tell yourself the lie that you have to do that stuff Cause you really don't and I want to segue to what I call autistic honesty Cause, for full context, when you first applied for the coaching you mentioned, hey, listen, I have Asperger's, asperger's, asperger's. I can never fucking say it. You say it for me. Go. You say. I think it's.

Speaker 2: 43:20

Asperger's, but I think it might also be.

Speaker 1: 43:23

I'm pretty sure I supposed to say like Asperger's, I think, whatever fucking Asperger's, maybe it's also yeah yeah, fuck it.

Speaker 2: 43:30

We'll go with Asperger's or whatever you want.

Speaker 1: 43:33

But you mentioned it in your coaching inquiry and in the initial video that I did for you, I said, dude, like I swear to God, half of my clients are on the autism spectrum.

Speaker 1: 43:41

Like that's, I'm probably on the autism spectrum myself. Like that's the thing that you think is going to be a barrier to meeting people, to socializing, to getting laid, all of that kind of stuff. That can be your superpower for a million different reasons, but the two biggest ones are because you don't, inherently, naturally, easily understand social cues and social decorum and like, what am I supposed to do? That means that you are the perfect person to have no sort of preconceived notions and you'll just fucking learn because, like you kind of have to, I've gone through the same thing. I'm like a hyperactive over observer. I have just like studied human psychology and the way people talk. And why did you use a semicolon instead of a colon in this sentence? Like that's wrong. Like I'm fucking autistic with that stuff because I want to be, because it's like, hey, I don't understand why. You're all doing this On a slight side, tangent 2020, with all the lockdowns, confused the fuck out of me. And I imagine I have spoken to a few autistic people and they're like why is everyone just acting like a robot? And they're all kind of doing the same thing and no one's thinking critically. So a lot of autistic friends of mine during that period were like why is everyone just doing the same thing as each other? And I think that's what I'm getting at when I say like autism or being on the spectrum can be a fucking superpower because it forces you, literally forces you, to learn and to study human behavior and psychology and push through or not even have some of those preconceived notions. But the second thing that I love with anyone that's on the spectrum is you just fucking understand honesty and truth.

Speaker 1: 45:15

Like that is a big part of being on the spectrum is like a fucking hyper obsession with truth, and I absolutely have that to just like. Like to the degree where I get triggered. If something like I can't watch certain movies, if there's a plot hole, like I get stuck, I feel like I'm stuck and I'm like no, but that's wrong. And then everyone else is like but it doesn't matter, just like watch the movie and I'm like no, but like, why did the director do that? Why did the person like 20 people must have written the script. They must have known that that's wrong. There's no sound in outer space. Like in outer space there's no sound. Why did they put sound effects in there? Who's decision? And like I get fucking stuck Cause I'm like this is wrong, this is not correct, and so that hyper obsession that a lot of people in the spectrum have with the truth and with honesty just absolutely sets you up for when you're then sitting, they're going okay, what's the socially acceptable way to ask a woman back to my apartment?

Speaker 1: 46:11

What's the socially acceptable way to like touch her? How do I kiss her? And I say no, no, no. That's where you use your superpower of honesty and truth and you just say it. You say I don't know how to ask you back to my place, would you like to come back to my place? Or you're hey, this is probably really awkward and like weird, but like can I kiss you?

Speaker 1: 46:31

And you just fucking embrace that side of yourself that like doesn't know social decorum. You kind of like step around it and you go okay, everybody over here is going to figure out like social cues and the correct way of doing things. Fuck that. I'm not even going to try and play that game, cause I don't understand it. I was going to fucking say what I want, and so all these people over here are trying to figure out how do I touch a woman or any women are like how do I make him be interested in me, how do I show that I like him? And then we're over here just going like yo, I like you, do you like me? And the person goes oh yeah, I do actually. And then we're having sex, we're building connections, we're building relationships, while the other people are trying to figure all this shit out. So you got to just like step around that and you definitely did.

Speaker 2: 47:12

Yeah, so when I came into the program I remember I really didn't see this as a superpower. When you first mentioned it, I'm like I kind of see that this can be a superpower, but I didn't really like take into account that the last five years I spent trying to make this my superpower without like actually telling myself that because, like you said, I have been extremely hyper focused on getting like a lot of details right in my life in terms of social cues and stuff. So I was already quite socially adapt. Like I had quite a few friends before coming into the program and then I guess I just made it a big deal out of maybe it's different on dates because I thought I need I kind of needed to do some game and stuff and it couldn't just be so simple. How could the truth be so simple? How could it be so simple?

Speaker 1: 48:01

If it was so simple, everybody would be doing it.

Speaker 2: 48:03

That's what people say, yeah, exactly that's what I was thinking, and it's like no people aren't doing it because it's so simple.

Speaker 2: 48:08

Yeah, I couldn't believe it but then I started to embrace that honesty and just try to go for it, Just try to go with this simple plan that I can actually that doesn't overwhelm me at all and just ask, like, even though I think I don't think this girl likes me, but I'm just gonna ask. And then she's like, yeah, let's go back for a cup of tea. Really, how does this even work? And I was like there's probably so many dates I've been on where I was trying to reach her and I'll be thinking, you know, I don't think she likes me.

Speaker 1: 48:39

I'm just gonna go home and not do anything.

Speaker 2: 48:41

Yeah, you say no for her, you don't give her a chance to say no.

Speaker 1: 48:46

You say no for her. You're like she's probably gonna say no, so fuck it, I'll just say it's a no, I won't even try. And you're right, like half the time the person says yes. The number of times meant I cannot tell you. Imogen, and I have this joke People will fill out like a coaching inquiry form to sign up for coaching.

Speaker 1: 49:02

You know, like you did, and they will say, because I have a questionnaire, they fill out and one of the questions is like on a scale of one to 10, how serious are you about coaching and changing your life? I will have people write I am 100 out of 10 serious. And they will write this whole like 10 paragraph thing about like I'm ready to change my life. Then we'll get on a call and I'll be like all right, so you seem pretty serious. Do you want to just go ahead or do you have any questions? And then we'll go through the whole thing and then they'll just email me a day later and go hey, I'm sorry, I changed my mind, I can't do this and I'm like you were like a 100 out of 10. And then I'll have other people where you know I do like $200 coaching calls where we just sit down for like half an hour or an hour and we just you know, it's not a big coaching call we just kind of go through some stuff and at the end of those I'll say and, by the way, like, do you want to sign up for the big coaching program? And some of these people have specifically put in their coaching form I'm not interested in the big coaching program, like I'm not even remotely interested. So, like 0% chance, I'll sign up. And when I asked them like hey, so I know, you said you're not interested. And you know that's fine, feel free to say no again, but I'm just throwing this out there Would you like to join the big coaching program? I've had like six people say do you know what? Yeah, I think I will sign up for the coaching program. And I'm like what the fuck? But I thought and I'll say to them I'll say but I thought you said no, you said no. And they'll be like yeah, but like just sitting on this little coaching call with you, I think I want to sign up.

Speaker 1: 50:28

And I've had that on so many dates where I'm like convinced that the person is not into me. Like there's no way in hell that she is going to say yes. But I'll say yeah, like it doesn't hurt to ask. The worst that happens is she says no and the best that happens is she says yes. Plus, I'm practicing asking people. I'm literally getting better at asking, and so I'll say would you like to come back? And in my head I'm like she'll say no and she goes yeah, that'd be nice. And you go what the fuck? And sometimes I will even say you didn't seem like you were even having a good time and she'll go oh no, I was having fun. I was just really nervous, like I like you, and I was just really scared and nervous and that's why I looked like I wasn't having fun. So, yeah, you cannot fucking predict if someone's gonna say yes or no.

Speaker 2: 51:13

Just to add to that so after the coaching finished, I think literally on the day after, I went on a date with one of the four girls that I mentioned that.

Speaker 2: 51:22

I was like trying to get laid with at the time and I was doing a photo shoot on the same day and I was going to my nine to five. So I thought like I could do my nine to five, do the photo shoot, get a beer with this girl after, but then because it was raining, it took way longer to do the photo shoot and find the locations. So when I was meeting her I kept postponing it a bit and it was also raining so she would have to go out into the rain. So she was like, okay, I'm on the way downtown, but if it's gonna take way longer, I'm just gonna go home. And then I was just like you can just join me for the day, just join me for the photo shoot if you want to. And then I asked the guy, of course, if he was okay with it that I was shooting photos of, and he was cool with it.

Speaker 1: 52:01

It's like a date and this was a first date right With this one, no it was a second date.

Speaker 2: 52:06

But yeah, but he was also like yeah, it would be cool to see you interacting with this girl, because I've already given him Tinder tips and, like tried to help him by the bio.

Speaker 1: 52:17

Dude. You're basically like would you like to? You're saying to him you're like would you like to come on my date with this girl so you can like, I'll be on a date with her, you can watch like.

Speaker 2: 52:25

Yeah, yeah, and I was just like having fun with this girl while, like, she was watching her car at some point and I was shooting photos of him, and it was super cool. And then I thought in the beginning, oh, this is not gonna work out, she's just gonna go home. But then I realized I can just ask for her to come here instead of her waiting somewhere. And then she actually thought it was a really cool date after because, yeah, she had like a different experience and different kind of date and well, I had her over at last night. I'm still seeing her as well, so and that's a new lay from after the coaching. So I also got like two additional days from after finishing the coaching three weeks ago. So I'm still doing that as well, on top of making money and building an lead body. How yeah man.

Speaker 1: 53:07

Yeah, it's wild the experiences that open up when you actually just ask. I've had, you know, like as examples there's been over the last like maybe a year or two. I've been really busy, I've been stressed about money and had a lot going on and I haven't necessarily been in the mood for dating. But there's a girl that we've been imaging and I'm a girlfriend and I have been dating for about almost a year at this point and there's just been a couple of times where I just I just don't feel like sexual. There's just like no way in hell that I'm gonna have sex, right, and everything in my brain is thinking, well, what's the point? Like we may as well cancel this date.

Speaker 1: 53:48

And Imogen has had a couple of days like that too, where she's just not felt sexual, she hasn't felt energetic, it feels like this is just not gonna be a good date. And you have that voice in your head that's like, ah, I should just cancel, like what's the point? But we've gone ahead anyway and we've been honest, like we've messaged her first and said, look, you know we're not feeling energetic, we're not really feeling like having sex, but do you wanna just hang out? One of those dates in particular, was literally the best date that we've had with her Cause we just took away all the expectations, all pressure, and we basically just went for a road trip and we hung out in a park and we patted a lot of like random dogs in this park and went to a cafe. We just spent the entire day together and we asked each other like really deep, really personal questions Like what is your biggest fear? What's your wildest childhood memory? Like the really deep shit, what do you want from life? What do you think you're gonna regret when you're sitting on your deathbed? Like those kinds of questions. And it was one of the most wonderful intimate dates we've ever had that wasn't sexual in any way and we were both really tempted to cancel.

Speaker 1: 54:52

And I've had so many of those experiences and I'm sure you know you mentioned it earlier you have, too, experiences where you kind of have an idea in your head of like, okay, we're gonna meet and I'm gonna try and have sex and that doesn't pan out. But if you can just take away that expectation and be present and actually sort of grateful and enjoy what's right there in front of you, you realize like, holy fuck, you said it before how many wonderful dates have I missed out on in the past Because I was trying too hard to push an agenda or because I went into it only wanting one thing. And if you want to want one thing, that's fine. But like man, I missed out on all this beauty that was right there in front of me Cause I was just I don't know desperate to get laid and I wasn't willing to accept anything else. And again, if that's what you want, go for it.

Speaker 1: 55:35

But at least in my case that wasn't what I wanted. It's just what I thought I had to do. I thought you have to have sex on the first date, otherwise you're like not a man or something, or she'll leave you. I wanted to have long dates, I wanted to go on like five dates. I like that shit. I just thought I wasn't allowed to have that shit.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Yeah, I think, like, for example, that girl that I did the photo shoot with I didn't sleep with her till the third date. But I think the first two dates were very amazing in their own ways, like especially the photo shoot date, because then that experience I'll probably cherish for many years to come, just when I was starting to build this photography business and then building my dating life also. It's just a really nice story and nice memories I have of us walking around in the rain, me embracing her, like I'm gonna keep you warm for now until we find a warm place, while my photos you'd climb, just driving around in this car trying to park somewhere. So it was quite chaotic, but it was like there's been a lot of fun dates that didn't end up in sex, which where they were just as good as the ones that did, I would say.

Speaker 1: 56:39

Yeah, man, speaking of sex, one of the things you started doing that we sort of gave you permission to do I guess you gave yourself permission, but you started asking women if they would be down for a threesome Because that was something that seemed cool to you. But you did the thing that most people do and I did this too for my entire life where you think like I'm not allowed to have that, I can't have that, I'm not cool enough to have that, I'm not the guy that could ever do that. How would I ever find two women that are interested in me? And I'm assuming you haven't had a threesome yet, but you've started asking for it, right? You've just started saying is this something you're into?

Speaker 2: 57:15

Yeah, yeah. So I did like, I think, when I was starting to get like I had those relays in four days and then I think you're mentioning you could make this more efficient. If you want to, you could try to go for a threesome. Then I thought about it for a bit and thought you know, that could actually be quite fun. And I've been thinking about it before. But I kind of dismissed it because I thought I'm not the kind of person that can get a threesome, like before getting into your stuff. But now I've realized that also seems like it isn't really a complicated process. It's just a matter of asking enough girls about it.

Speaker 1: 57:50

It's so unbelievably simple. Yeah, and it seems like this big complex thing, but it literally is just like hi, have you ever fought around with another girl or thought about it? And when two women say, yeah, I have done that or I would like to do that, or I've thought about that and I'm interested, you say, cool, here's the other woman. Do you like her pictures? Oh wow, she's so pretty. And then you show the other one oh wow, she's pretty, too cool. Would you like us all to meet and have wine and see what happens? Yes, they meet. You talk for a little bit, you say you guys should kiss. There's your fucking threesome. It's like so unbelievably not interesting.

Speaker 1: 58:24

And I have like I mean it's interesting, but like I wrote and you've seen it I wrote and did a video course that people can buy if they want to, on like how to have threesome, and all of my coaching clients get that for free. And like I was in two minds when I made that right, because I start off in the video course by saying, look, this really isn't complicated. And you could literally end the video course right now and not watch all of it by just going and asking a bunch of women that you're sleeping with or new women that you meet, and some of them will say yes. And when two of them say yes, there you go, there's your threesome. Like, literally, you don't need this video course. And everybody listening, I just gave you the video course for free. You literally just ask for it, but people will still go. Yeah, but I want to know the steps, so that's why I did the rest of it. But, yeah, most of this stuff, man, is so unbelievably simple.

Speaker 1: 59:10

If you want to go to an orgy, just ask a bunch of people. Do you know where there's an orgy? Can I please come? Yes. If you want to make money, hi, can I please have some money? Yes, cool, ask enough people and you'll get enough money. You want to make friends? Hi, would you like to be my friend? If you ask 100 people, you'll make like 30, 50 friends. Like none of this stuff is that complicated.

Speaker 2: 59:28

Yeah, but yeah, I did. I started asking for the free sum and then I hit a wall at some point because I realized if I am to do the free sum, I'm probably gonna explore way more sexually than I am right now, which actually opened up like I had so when I first lost my virginity yeah, let's talk about that now.

Speaker 2: 59:48

That's so. When I was 19, I lost my virginity and then it wasn't really a good experience because I was like it was after we went to a club and then I went home with somebody and then it was really late, I was quite drunk, I couldn't get it up properly. So and I feel like I really want to please this girl now that she's taking me home. So she ended up giving me a blowjob and I didn't enjoy it because she used a lot of teeth and her technique wasn't really that good. But I didn't really tell her that I didn't like it because I thought, well, I'm not really pleasing her in any other way and she wants to like do this to me, so I'm just gonna let her. And that experience it was actually hurting for two weeks after because she actually hurt me by doing that. So because of that I really didn't enjoy blowjobs. I've never really enjoyed blowjobs and I think it's because of that experience. But I didn't realize before the coaching, before I started asking for the free sums, because that just showed me kind of that situation again. It was kind of like it came up and I felt it. I didn't see that person. But I had the same feelings as, like, some of the times that when people wanted to give me a blowjob, I was like I prefer we should just do it in another way. But because I was thinking I might have a free sum soon, maybe I should actually learn to embrace this or, like, not make this a thing that's holding me back, that I don't like the blowjobs and stuff. So, yeah, it was really something that I kind of shifted when I realized I had this sexual trauma from back then to actually starting to work on that rather than just going harder on the free sum. I mean I did. I have asked a few more girls since then. I haven't had the free sum yet, but I've actually spent more time working on the sexual trauma stuff I actually had.

Speaker 2: 1:01:34

Like, after the coaching ended, one of the girls I've slept with new girls I've slept with I actually opened up completely to her because like we were quite honest with each other.

Speaker 2: 1:01:44

She asked me what do I like in bed? And I told her some of that stuff and I also told her during sex that we can try this, but I'm probably gonna get soft, and I did for a while. We just hung out for half an hour talked about it and then I wanted her afterwards, so we had like some great sex afterwards, but she was just like listening and taking it all in and she was like wow, thank you very much for telling me that. Like that's a very brave of you to be that honest and it felt like that's another step in terms of healing that for me, because she actually gave me a blowjob and I was like this is decent, like I can actually stay, I can be here in this moment and slightly enjoy it and not feel repelled by it like I used to do beforehand. So like I'm in the process of healing that part of myself.

Speaker 1: 1:02:32

I love that for you, man. I love that. That was one of the things that we talked about when you opened up to us on that group, coach and Co and you were incredibly brave. We all told you that at the time when you first told all of us. And I said trauma and I mean let's just talk about trauma trauma but fears and other things as well.

Speaker 1: 1:02:49

But trauma is one of those things where it sort of grows in the darkness. It only can live in the darkness and the way that we heal trauma is by bringing it out into the light, in other words, telling other people, owning it, like embracing it, looking at it, and that can be quite traumatic, can be quite painful for some people and it was for you. It was very difficult and scary. But once we actually open up to some people, especially if they're people we trust everyone in the coaching group is very open and vulnerable. In the coaching everyone's like amazing, but it could be like a psychologist, it could be a counselor, it could be a trusted friend or a family member, could be on a random internet forum or something. But wherever you relatively trust people, when you open up and you see that people have a good reaction to it and in fact they tell you you're fucking brave and that they're grateful. You just told them that. And then some people even open up about their own trauma or their own fears or insecurities and then you go, oh shit, you mean I'm not fucked up for having this thing, you mean there's nothing wrong with me, I'm not bad because I have this trauma or this insecurity or this fear. You start to, or it starts to, have less of a hold on you, it starts to feel less shameful and you move up to I guess you would call it like grief maybe, where you start to like process it. You start to grieve, maybe you cry, maybe you let it go. Then you start moving up a little bit further. Maybe you move up to courage and you go, yeah, like maybe I can heal this. You start moving up to like willingness and being open and willing to work through this thing. Eventually you keep moving up. You move up to acceptance. You're like, hey, this thing happened, yeah, and then you move even higher and eventually you can get to a point if you're willing to, and don't rush I'm not saying this to you so much, I'm saying this to other people If somebody else is going through trauma. You don't have to rush this process. But eventually, if you're willing to, if you want to, you can get to a point where you love the trauma. And that was I left.

Speaker 1: 1:04:41

You remember that very big voice message where I basically said, man, like if you're willing to, if you want to, you can get to a point where you're like, grateful that this thing happened, this thing that you called trauma before or that was trauma for you before, this thing that was just associated with pain and suffering and shame, and I don't wanna look at that. It's very scary. You can get to a point where you embrace that and you're glad it happened. And you were brave enough to come up with a couple of different things I guess you would say that you were grateful for with this trauma. One of them was like you were grateful that because you had gone through this experience and you hadn't stood up for your own boundaries when it first happened and nothing against the girl she didn't fucking know and nothing against you you didn't fucking know, you were both trying to do your best but because you didn't have boundaries and say, well, stop, this hurts, I'm not having fun, can we please stop Because you didn't sort of have your own boundaries at that point.

Speaker 1: 1:05:35

That has taught you unbelievable empathy for other people's boundaries, because you're like motherfucker, I know how it feels to not have boundaries and to do something you don't wanna do. I'm gonna make goddamn sure that every woman, as best I can, is really, really having a good time, and if I get even a little hint that she's not okay with something, I'm gonna fucking say hey, whoa, are you okay? Do you wanna stop? Is everything good? Are you having fun? And you came up with a few other reasons why you were sort of or this trauma could be, this thing that happened to you could be possibly a good thing. It could be a great thing for you. And you really embraced that mindset of like, basically, how can I use this to have a win? Like, rather than this being a thing that happened to me, how can I say this is a thing that happened for me? And to everybody listening, you don't have to rush this process, you don't even have to do this process, but you, mark, have sort of found that helpful.

Speaker 2: 1:06:26

Yeah, and right now I don't. Like when I opened, as soon as I opened up about it, I felt like it was like I really I really didn't feel good in my body about that experience because I feel like it has been holding me back for so many years. But on the other hand, then, immediately after, when I'd started to process it, I thought, you know, this is a great way for me to actually start like, yeah, start healing this process, but also start starting to like explore more of how do I say it? Like the sexual stuff that I haven't really explored before, just because I thought what I would be telling myself before was, like, coming from a state of apathy, that I don't like blowjobs, I don't like all these things. But now I realize there's like this world of things that I haven't tried that I can now start trying, like just take baby steps towards trying that and seeing if I like them or not, because now I actually have like a different view on those things, because maybe I do actually like blowjobs.

Speaker 2: 1:07:25

I realized it can be nice, but I didn't. I was just pushing them away, saying I don't want you to do that, like after that first experience happened, because I don't want people to overstep my boundaries again. But now I realized of course they are doing it because they want me to have a good time. It's not because they only want to do that, it's actually to please me, and now it's just great. Coming from a place of now, I can be curious about these things and try them, rather than just pushing them away as a defense mechanism.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

Yeah, yeah, and you were doing your best. If somebody else out there maybe has some sexual trauma whether that's a guy, whether that's a girl, and obviously we don't know what their trauma is but if somebody's listening, you know, is there any advice that you'd give them of how to maybe start either opening up or telling someone else about this or, I guess, like healing this and sort of working through this if they want to, and if they don't want to, you don't have to. But what would you say to someone?

Speaker 2: 1:08:19

I would actually do something like what I did in the group. Maybe, of course, if you're not one of the coaching clients here, you probably have a close friend or somebody that you really trust that you can at least start telling something about this too. It doesn't have to be like the full-fledged story of what happened, but it can be like something happened to me when I was, let's say, 19, and it's still kind of bothering me today. Do you mind if I open up a bit to you about this and can I trust you with this? Maybe just tell them a bit and get it out there, because, like you said earlier, if it stays in the shadows it's gonna keep having a grip on you. If it never gets out and you never really start accepting it and start telling your story, then I don't think you're ever gonna conquer that. So I think for me it was really key just telling you guys, and then it's out there. Now I can actually look at it from another perspective.

Speaker 1: 1:09:14

And I can get other people's opinions on it too, or not opinion, like we didn't have an opinion on it. But it's nice to see other people go like, oh you know, thank you for sharing that, you're courageous, for sharing that when maybe you've told a story yourself of like this is a bad thing, this is shameful, this is bad, this is awful. And then to see other people have a completely like non-judgmental, welcoming, loving response to it can help you sort of reframe that and go, oh wow, this doesn't have to be this bad thing that I did or that happened to me.

Speaker 2: 1:09:43

Yeah, I think pretty much everything you can reframe and we worked on this a lot during the coaching. There are so many things that especially mindset wise that I came out with. And then you're like try to give me 10 reasons why this is a good thing and 10 reasons why you don't need 50 lays, for example. And there's like so many different exercises you gave me there on reframing which has been really helpful, and it's also in terms of this sexual trauma stuff, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:10:11

Yeah, yeah. While we're on the subject of reframing, I guess one thing that you wrote in your final post, when you were saying goodbye to everybody and you listed out everything you felt you'd achieved you said I had a breakdown from telling myself that I was fucking up and telling myself that I wouldn't get laid anytime soon. And this was at the start of the coaching. This was the sign of a major breakthrough to come. I got laid literally the day after.

Speaker 1: 1:10:41

Yes, that is so common when someone's like I'm never gonna make it. I have done this a million times myself. Like recent example a month ago I was sitting there saying man, I'm so stressed about money, I'm so stressed about paying the bills. I pushed this coaching deal that I've just finished. You know the deal that we've just finished, mate. We had like nine people sign up and so like literally one minute, I'm sitting there going, I'm so stressed about money. The next minute it's like holy shit, nine people just signed up, holy fuck, there goes half of my tax debt. Holy shit, like yeah, we never know how close we are to those breakthrough moments. But maybe walk us through some of the pressure that you were putting on yourself or the feelings that you were having when you were feeling. Like what did you mean when you say you were fucking up? What exactly were you fucking up?

Speaker 2: 1:11:25

So when I came in with the coaching, I think I had 28 lays or something. So I had been working on myself for a couple of years and actually I had been reading your Tinder guide, putting some other things into action, so I had some results. So I thought when I came into the program, I'm just gonna crush it, get those 10 lays easily. But the first two weeks I didn't get any. So I was thinking, wait, so I'm going on these dates but it's not happening, Like what is going on.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

But to be fair, at that point I haven't had a new lay throughout the whole year of 2023. So I was a bit rushed in that process. So I just had to get going again with going on dates. But I thought, because I've been working on myself for a while and been working on the dating stuff, I was just a bit disappointed in myself in the beginning that I didn't get the results immediately as soon as I joined the coaching. But then, like when I that point is tied to the long post I made where I was having a breakdown and then, like I mentioned, I was just at the cusp of getting laid the day after which I didn't realize when I wrote the post.

Speaker 1: 1:12:28

But then like yeah, you don't know. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

But then in hindsight I realized, you know, this was like this was just a big sign that something big was probably gonna happen like soon, because I was really internally tackling all these things, getting the main entang or just like getting things in order basically in my head. And then, as soon as that was fixed and I had a different mindset towards what failing meant to me and like the expectations I should put on myself, the things I could probably achieve versus like I think I also wrote at some point that I overestimated what I could achieve in one day, but like I underestimated what I couldn't achieve in 30, which ties very well into this that I thought that if I cannot get laid in this like very short time span, I'm a fuck up. But then if I look at throughout the whole month, I probably got like three or four lays that month.

Speaker 2: 1:13:20

So it's just like being a bit patient with everything and just baby stepping it and seeing what happens.

Speaker 1: 1:13:27

You're doing the classic thing where and I do this all the time too it's not just you where we put pressure on ourselves to get a certain outcome and we don't give ourselves credit for the action that we're taking. Again, the David Hawkins quote that I said earlier "'We are responsible for the effort and the intention, but not the outcome". Like there are so many variables going on that aren't personal, they're not anything to do with you. That's why we say you know, play the numbers game. If you wanna make money, go and ask a bunch of people for money and offer them something as well. But even then you can just ask for money. Some people will say, yes, homeless people do that. But we keep playing the numbers game and trust in the process and surrender to the process and have faith in the process that, yes, I will eventually have some sort of payoff and I don't have full control over when. That is because it involves other people.

Speaker 1: 1:14:18

Other people might say no to me and the number of times I myself, like I said, I've been like one minute or one day or one week away from having a huge breakthrough, but I don't know. Like to me it feels like every other day, and you know the day where you got that day, where you got laid. When you woke up that morning it would have felt like every other day oh my God, look here, I'm still failing. And then you have sex and you're like what the fuck? Today was the day that I break through. What the hell? But today didn't look any different to yesterday. Why the hell did I get laid today but not yesterday? Yeah, like that's how this shit goes, it's. You never know how close you are to that breakthrough moment.

Speaker 1: 1:14:55

And so again, everybody listening focus on what you can control, which is your actions, your intention, your self-improvement, putting positive vibes out into the world, like playing the numbers game, asking people for what you want, reading books, watching podcasts, like all the shit you can actually control, and then completely surrender to the rest, almost like in a religious or a spiritual way. You can kind of just go that's not my business, like the outcome is not my business, that's the universe's business or it's God's business, it's not up to me. I don't get to just fucking tell everyone to you have to have sex with me. I don't get to say on Wednesday the 28th I'm having sex, like what you can say is on Wednesday, the 28th, I'm gonna try really fucking hard to have sex, but I might not.

Speaker 1: 1:15:38

A bunch of people might say no to me. But what I can control is the action, and so I would focus like, yes, I have goals, yes, I have deadlines, but focus mostly on the actual actions that you're taking and then leave the rest almost up to like fate, like it's not your business to control what happens. It's your business to control what you do.

Speaker 2: 1:15:56

Yeah, also just to add to that. I remember you guys you were telling me you've made huge progress so far, but I didn't see that because I didn't get laid yet. So I was thinking like it's totally black and white.

Speaker 1: 1:16:08

Yeah, it doesn't come to us. Progress doesn't count until I get what I want. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, we did that a lot.

Speaker 2: 1:16:15

Yeah. Then when I got laid, I saw, okay, I get like how this is all filled up to this point and like this is put the foundation basically for the rest of the program, that I needed this foundation in order or I didn't need it, but like it really helped me out a lot that I put this foundation down with like optimizing my profile and starting to ask girls artistically to come back with me and stuff like that, and just going on a bunch of dates, because now I'm used to going on these dates and I'm more comfortable asking girls back, so I actually do it. And then, yeah, then I started getting laid after that, but I, of course, I only saw the part that was I did not get laid yet. Why did I not get laid yet?

Speaker 1: 1:16:55

What is going on here. You can't see the bigger picture and fair enough, like I don't expect you to. It's not really your job to see the bigger picture, it's my job. And so I have this conversation with people. Sometimes I have this conversation with the guy in the coaching group right now where I basically have to say and Ed is another coach in the program and he says to people sometimes he's like stop, you're not the expert, you don't know what's possible, you don't know when the breakthrough is gonna come. You don't realize that you're making progress right now. We can see all that. Like it's like you're fucking paying us to see all of that and we've coached enough people at this point hundreds of people. It's gonna be thousands of people if you include my YouTube and Spotify and blog and all of that.

Speaker 1: 1:17:37

The audience. Like we know when someone's making progress, you are paying us to make sure you make progress. And if you're not making progress, you've seen us tell you that you're not making progress and we tell you to change something. We say, hey, try this instead. Hey, what about this? Hey, have you thought about doing this? Like you're literally paying us to keep you on track and so kind of surrendered to that a little bit and if anyone listening right now, if you're not doing coaching, they're like, if you don't have a coach, trust my content or you don't have to trust me. Trust whoever you're following, whoever you feel like you believe in, whoever you feel like you can trust, almost like a I don't know, like a higher power or something, like someone that you can just go all right, I'm just gonna have some faith, I'm gonna just do what this person says and I'm just gonna hope that it works out and like surrender to that a little bit and stop trying to fucking control the outcome and say, no, I know better, I should have gotten laid by now. It's been, you know, it's been three months. I've worked on this for three months. I should get laid right now. And it's like no, you shouldn't. How do I know you shouldn't? Because you haven't.

Speaker 1: 1:18:34

So there's obviously more self-improvement to do, or you need to talk to more women or you need to do something else. Like you don't just get the thing because you say that you want the thing and I go through the same stuff myself again. I'm not perfect. There's been a million times where I go I should have more clients signing up. And then I stop and I think, well, I'm not the fucking expert on how many clients should show up. I'm not the expert. There are no clients currently showing up.

Speaker 1: 1:18:57

Okay, so what can I do? That takes more action. Can I do more content mentioning coaching? Can I give more value? Can I change more people's lives? Can I do a coaching deal? Can I send a bunch of emails to people to say, hey, by the way, there's coaching, would you like it? Can I put more effort into me mentioning coaching? Can I go through all of my old coaching clients and message all of them and say, hey, can you please give me an updated testimonial so that I can use that in marketing? Like, what action can I take to get the thing? So yeah, taking off that control or that pressure on ourselves to control the outcome, because we can't. You can't control the outcome, but you can control your own effort. You can always do a little bit more, and that's what you focus on.

Speaker 1: 1:19:36

Let's talk about honesty, and you mentioned that it was an absolute game changer in your relationships. Maybe let's take it. We can talk a little bit about that in general, but let's also talk about the woman. I've chopped out her name, but we'll just call her R. You and I know what that stands for and you said you and her shared like an amazing relationship until she moved to another city, but you're still in contact with her. You're seeing her well. I guess you would have already seen her by the time we're recording this. But tell us a bit about like opening up an honesty and sharing that space with someone, that intimate space with someone.

Speaker 2: 1:20:11

Yeah, I think for her because she was moving cities, it was probably the first grill that I was as honest, that as I felt I could be probably I don't know 98% honest. I think I stated in the group at some point where I tried to really be as honest as possible because I knew I only had a month with her before she was moving and we both agreed we're probably just gonna have some fun this summer and then we might not see each other again before, but we just had this amazing connection as soon as we met and she's also. She likes to explore, try new things a lot. I like to do that. She's very smart and like she's very ambitious in terms of some of the things she does or wants to try anyway. So we're just going on these adventures for a whole month trying different things, and it really showed me how fun dating could also be, since we didn't like I tried paddle for the first time with her.

Speaker 2: 1:21:05

We went to see like a nice sunset at a bridge I haven't been to for a long time. I've never seen the sunset there anyway and we just like we did. We cooked together, we did a bunch of things together, went to a festival together, did all these things in a month and when she moved away or she went on interval actually after so we said goodbye and it felt like goodbye, but still we kept in touch for a bit and we kind of agreed that we would stay in touch but it like it felt a bit like a goodbye. But then, yeah, fast forward to now, when I mentioned that the end of the coaching I was going to see her, we actually did something crazy, because that was like kind of our thing to try to push everything, kind of like what I did with the coaching. But we also did that with each other, tried to like coach each other into you, into you could also try this thing, or maybe you should try this together.

Speaker 2: 1:21:51

So I actually brought her to. Yeah, first of all, I told my mom about that. I was dating her, which is like the first time I ever name dropped. Somebody's told her that. So I'm dating this person.

Speaker 1: 1:22:02

Because your mother's very traditional and conservative about like Asian family.

Speaker 2: 1:22:06

Yeah, exactly. So I didn't know how she would react. I was kind of scared that you should get mad at me or something. But then I also told her I've actually been dating a lot of people lately and she was like she reacted in a very neutral way and then she even mentioned if you want to, you can bring Rebecca to our birthday party, which is actually. So what I did was the first I actually introduced. Yeah, did I just name drop her? That's okay, I guess.

Speaker 1: 1:22:31

If I did, I actually brought that out, if you want to.

Speaker 2: 1:22:37

I don't think it matters really, but it's only a first name, yeah, yeah, it's only a first name, but we can still call her R, I guess, for going forward. So I brought R to my parents' 60 year birthday, which they had just after the coaching ended, which means I brought her to my whole family and they all met her. And then the day after she took me to meet her seven friends female friends like in a park because it was her birthday. So we already had this relationship kind of thing where she met my family, I met all of her friends from the city that she made in this city, when of course, she lives in another city now. But I'm also gonna visit her in two weeks.

Speaker 2: 1:23:19

So we're still keeping in contact, still seeing each other, and it's probably my first experience of having a relationship kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 1:23:27

Of course we're not calling it that now, but maybe over time we'll see what happens, but at least we're. It's been really great, I feel like it's since I haven't had much experience with that that has been just as valuable as getting a bunch of new laces, I would say, because I've learned so much about what I want in a long-term partner over time and which values I really care about, also when meeting new girls Now I know more to in terms of what I want like, in terms of their personality traits and just the way they, the kind of dates that they enjoy going on, the type of conversations we're having. I know that at least I have that reference point for that. For, like new girls I'm currently meeting and girls that I'm seeing, which also actually it also made me cut out some of the girls I was seeing, because I realized I would rather focus on a fewer girls, have more quality time with them, rather than just like seeing 10 different girls at once or whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:24:30

I was trying at the end of the coaching. Basically every guy I've ever met gets to that point Like, after you have enough sex and you prove to yourself that you can have I mean sort of like unlimited sex as long as you'd like kept putting an effort. At that point you're like, do I really just want to keep having more sex? And I've never met a single person that goes yeah, I just want to keep having infinite sex. Pretty much everyone goes.

Speaker 1: 1:24:54

I think I want to go a little bit deeper. I think I want to sort of learn this new set of skills or enter this new domain of like relationships, even if it's just a casual relationship. But I think I want to learn this intimacy, this vulnerability, and go a little bit deeper. Maybe get some feelings, see what that's like, push someone, care about someone, mentor them a little bit, have them mentor me, get them to meet my friends, get them to meet my family. Yeah, it's a whole new fucking world and it seems like it's just an extension of like having sex.

Speaker 1: 1:25:23

But it really does feel like this whole new cool playground of different things that you get to explore and what you might find, what I have found and Imogen has found with the girls that we date is a lot of the things that you learn in like a relationship, even a casual one of like intimacy and connection and asking deeper questions. You're allowed to do that with casual sex too. It's just that most of us have gone. I can't do that because that would be feelings and feelings are bad and wrong and you're not allowed to get feelings in casual sex and it's like that's not true. You can go deep and ask deep questions and still have a casual. The girl that we're seeing right now it's very casual but we fucking love her to be. It's weird to her. We go absolutely deeper, sell, but it's still casual.

Speaker 2: 1:26:02

Yeah, actually, when I first met R, we actually went really deep quite quickly, probably because we knew that we're just probably going to be seeing each other for a month and we want to like explore as much as we can with this kind of relationship thing we got going on. So we deliberately decided early on that we're going to be opening up a lot, we're going to be talking about deeper stuff, and that also made me realize I've only known this girl for like two weeks, but we're actually talking about really really deep level shit right now. So, and I really loved that. That was really cool to actually try and I realized that that is something I value a lot, like the honesty from the girl and just having this ability to go down and talk about deeper things, ambitions, things you want to achieve early, later on in life and stuff like that, dreams that we're having. We actually made a bucket list together of things we want to try. So, yeah, yeah, there's it really. It was really giving me quite a lot having this like relationship.

Speaker 1: 1:27:00

I guess I would call it together, yeah, and you kind of give yourself permission. If you want to and anybody listening you don't have to do the shit. But like, once you do it with a few people, you realize oh, wow, like I'm allowed to ask deep questions on the first fucking date. Hell, I'm allowed to ask that stuff on Tinder if I feel like it. My first message can literally be like hi, you're attractive, or hi, you're sexy, or hi, you're pretty, or hi, whatever.

Speaker 1: 1:27:26

What are your goals in life? What are your ambitions? What's your meaning of life? What are you here for? What's your purpose? Like, you can ask that shit whenever you want. You don't have to wait till it's like a relationship before you start asking the deep questions. So that really like frees you up to talk to the stuff that you actually want to talk about. And if you don't want to talk about this stuff, don't. But I've just met so many people that like want to have those conversations, those kind of deeper conversations, but they think I'm not allowed to because like that would be clingy or moving too fast and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 1:27:54

No you talk about whatever you both want to fucking talk about. If you don't want to talk about it, don't talk about it, but there's a whole world to explore there. Hey, one thing you glossed over was the sort of like you just mentioned. You know, I mentioned to my mother that I'm seeing multiple people. Motherfucker, like that was a big deal for you and you just said it like it was like an easy thing. You literally said I cried afterwards. I like fucking cried because this meant so much to me, because I was like improving my honesty and my relationship with my parents and I thought that I wouldn't be able to do that. Yeah, that's a big deal. It was a big deal for me too. When I told my mother, like hey, Imogen and I are in an open relationship, that was a huge deal. You cried afterwards. It was such a big deal.

Speaker 2: 1:28:33

Yeah, yeah, let me elaborate a bit on that to give it some credit at that moment in time because it's actually had quite an impact on my relationship with them now. But let me start from that point. So basically, when I got into this whole trying to improve my dating life a couple of years ago and actually I started going on dates, I actually had a girl I was seeing for six months, which I think that's the only time I've briefly mentioned that I was dating somebody. But I don't think I'm feeling it completely after five months of like going to a summer house and stuff, like doing a lot of stuff for this girl. So I've never I've kept everything a secret, pretty much like I've told her. I've been meeting people, sometimes my mom, but I feel like our relationship has never really we've never really talked about, talk, talked about much in terms of our personal life and my dad. It's more just been like a fun thing where we talk about training or something. So I just felt this need, I don't know like this drive to actually go and tell her that okay, I'm making I've actually met a really amazing person that I'm probably going to stay in touch with that and also this phase in my life where I've been dating a lot of using it to. I've been using it to self improve and in this whole like time of trying to be more honest and just use that to improve my relationships, just generally like be an a bit more honest person, I thought I want to try to be more honest with my mother, because I think she really deserves it. She's done the best she could for me to growing up at least, and and I think she's been a great mother, but I feel like I can at least give her this, this thing, back right now. So I just decided that now I'm going to tell her. I'm going to be home this weekend, so let me just mention as much as I can do my best in terms of opening up. And yeah, I was so surprised how she took it, because he was like just smiling and nodding and being very understanding and showing on conditional love for a son, and then, when I came home, I was just thinking like my head just blew up almost, because I thought I just said it like the thing I wanted to say for probably over two years. I finally managed to say it and then I broke down and I wrote that post, that. So I managed to do something really crazy with my honesty, like I should actually told her there.

Speaker 2: 1:30:50

And now every time I'm home I noticed there's like a different, that there's a different vibe in the air when I talk with my mom. Like it feels like we've broken down and envision an invisible barrier where, like I'm asking more, I'm asking her more questions about her life, naturally, and she's asking me more. Questions I'm mentioning are sometimes to her like that I'm going to her city in two weeks and visiting her and of course she's met her, so she's asking so, oh, how's she doing and how are you doing my son? And like a lot of things. I'm opening up about what I'm doing. So it's just changed a lot for me.

Speaker 2: 1:31:28

I would say, of course, that is just the first step that I set that back then. It is now I'm really feeling that it's it's continually building towards a better and more open relationship with my mother especially. But yeah, that was really huge for me saying that, and I was. I was visiting my parents two days ago when my grand grand grandpa was also there, and they're just feel like it was just such a warm vibe when I was talking with my mom there and I I didn't have that before I opened up to her I would say so it's like actual intimacy and connection right.

Speaker 2: 1:32:02

Yeah, exactly, it's like I wouldn't have called it. Of course I know she, she has a lot, she has unconditional love for me, but I haven't felt this connection for years, I would say the level of connection I feel right now when I'm at home.

Speaker 1: 1:32:16

Yeah, that's my saying where I say if you want something, you go first. So if you want, like unconditional love from someone, if you want intimacy or connection or vulnerability, like you go first, like you take that first step. You absolutely frickin did that. You really embrace that.

Speaker 1: 1:32:30

I was so happy when you made that postman, especially because I know your parents or you said your mother's, like Asian image and went through the same sort of shit because she, her father's, like Chinese, chinese, malaysian, and yeah, these things can be scared to open up and I've had enough Asian clients now that have done what you've done, where they're like fuck it. Like I've never told my parents anything. My parents probably think I'm a fucking virgin or something. They've literally never asked and you know it's only like how's your study? Did you get an A plus? Why did you want to get an A minus like? And I finally opened up and they received it well or they didn't receive it well.

Speaker 1: 1:33:04

We had a client that parents really didn't like that they were like you're dead to me, like that kind of thing. And then a day or two later she called and she said I'm so sorry, I didn't mean that. Blah, blah, blah. I was just having a bad reaction. I love you, blah, blah, blah. And they were able to talk through it. So, yeah, I think, no matter what the reaction is, it's frame to be able to not have to hide that part of you because you're basically owning it. At that point you feel a little bit more like good about what you're doing. You feel a little bit more like you're being acting with integrity. Yeah, it's like anyone listening. You don't have to tell anyone anything, like other people aren't entitled to the information on your in your head. But you wanted to, like you said we didn't even tell you to, we didn't prompt you to you, just you did it. So like, yeah, you didn't want to do this.

Speaker 2: 1:33:48

Yeah, I remember there was. There was a guy in the coaching group when I shared that. He got very inspired by that post and he was also like maybe I should just open up about everything. But then I think we both commented something like maybe just do it in baby steps, because, yes, I did that, but maybe it's not going to go as well. We don't know if it's going to do that. I just felt like I had this intuition that this is going to be like the right moment and of course she could take it badly, but I thought she's probably not gonna disown me or something like the worst that could happen in my case was probably that she needed to take like a day to think about it then and then we could talk about it again and then it would probably be good. But, like the other guy in the group, I felt like from what I heard, it sounded like maybe it could go a bit worse, like if you just straight up went.

Speaker 1: 1:34:35

Yeah, and anybody listening is missing the missing context here. Yeah, there was. There was reasons why with the other guy that we were like you can do that if you want to and we'll fully support it, but like, do you want to just try taking a baby step first? There was a lot of evidence of like I don't know if your parents are going to take this the same way. Like, yeah, exactly, very different situation. Yeah, so I think yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:34:58

So I think, yeah, for me my relationship was was pretty decent with my parents, like we hadn't had any fights or anything like any major fights or anything like that. So I thought it feels like a safe space for me to open up a bit more. But I also like just started to open up about our and then after I could see she took it well. So I just like sprinkled in the I was dating multiple people part afterwards, because she took it very well.

Speaker 1: 1:35:24

Yeah, I love that. There's gonna be the world's worst segue. But you another thing you did is you started losing weight and you lost three and a half kilograms in the coaching program in like a month and then you've since lost like nine kilograms in three months. I know if you have anything to say on that.

Speaker 2: 1:35:41

If not, we can jump to the net stuff yeah, I can mention it because when I so during the winter time, I've always been a very skinny guy so I wanted to put on muscle. So during the winter of this year and also the fall of last year, I was like I was bulking a lot. So that has been my goal for a while. But then I think I've been bulking for so long that at this point it was about time that I was going to go on a cut. So I just like casually posted a photo photo from when I went to, because my friend took like a photo of me playing paddle and then you all like there's so many people that commented either you should go on a cut now recomb. And then then I thought I'm just gonna gonna go on a cut.

Speaker 2: 1:36:20

I see what you guys mean, that I have gained like quite a bit of size but also quite a bit of fat. So from there I just started like losing. I did some calculations. I started losing around probably 600 or 700 grams a week on average and I just kept that going basically until now. So when I was at my heaviest I was 92 during the beginning of the coaching, 92 kilograms. Now I'm this morning I'm 82.2, so it's almost 10 kilograms actually, jesus, yeah, and I, like the girls that I've been seeing lately.

Speaker 2: 1:36:51

They are just commenting you're so goddamn sexy and stuff. I didn't get that before, when I was heavier, and also my face. I can just tell it's slimming down, so they're also like. The girl I had over yesterday was like please do that to me again at some point after we had sex.

Speaker 1: 1:37:07

Yeah, I wrote an article about this a while ago. If getting laid is your main goal and if you have other goals, you know that's beautiful. But if getting laid, if you're a man and it's probably applies to women as well If having sex and getting laid and being like sexually attractive to people is your main goal, losing weight like helps above all else. Like I just say, that's the number one thing you can do right now. Other things help, obviously, like good grooming you know fashion, hitting the gym, things like that but losing weight is like the quickest and easiest and free thing that you can do right there to just blast straight to that point where people say, holy shit, you're sexy. Another thing that you did, that you absolutely killed, that really came out of nowhere, was no faps, so you didn't masturbate for 60 days and you said when you first and we were like, why don't you try?

Speaker 1: 1:37:59

do you want to go 14 days? You did that. And then we're like, fuck man, do you want to go 30 days? You did that. Like Jesus man, like yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:38:09

I think there's just so much going on the coaching that I realized that if I actually go and fap now I'm gonna drain all my energy, so Like I was pushing it so hard that I didn't have the capacity to actually Go and go and fap, which I think is actually the biggest cheat code now to stop into fab or at least reducing it. Because if you have so much going on in your day and you realize that I'm already feeling sluggish because, like, I've been sacrificing a bit of sleep, I did that in beginning, but then I started prioritizing it again and yeah, that's a whole nother segue. We can go into that after with my sleep. But yeah, I realized I only have so many hours during the day and I want to get the most out of the coaching.

Speaker 2: 1:38:47

And I was also talking about so one of my accountability partners, tea from the group. He's been working a lot with sopping, so sobering up, and then we made this kind of agreement that way I'm gonna do the no fab stuff, you're gonna try to sober up as much as you can, and then we're gonna we're not aiming for perfection, but they're just like trying to reduce it as much as possible. So we kept each other accountable pretty much every week and how that was going. So that helped me out quite a lot having him as a accountability partner To keep me accountable, and especially that part in the beginning.

Speaker 1: 1:39:21

Yeah, one of the things I say to people, if you're trying to give up a vice or an addiction, is like you don't just quit it, because then you'll be sitting around with all this free time or this energy that you were previously spending on your addiction or your vice, and the first thing your brain is going to do is it's going to go. I'm bored. What should I do? Well, do you know what I really like to do? My addiction, and so what I say is replace it with something so you can keep yourself really busy. You don't have to, like sit there and distract yourself although that can help for the first couple of weeks but have some sort of higher purpose or a mission. This is literally what places like alcohol or programs like alcoholics anonymous to.

Speaker 1: 1:40:00

It's like we give you some sort of higher power. You have the group you have going out and making your Men's for people you've heard. You have like forgiving others. You have, you know, surrendering to a higher power. You have helping other people with their sobriety. You have all of these missions that are a higher purpose than alcohol, so that then, when you see the bottle of alcohol, you're like I'm drawn to it and I still have the addiction, but like I don't really give a fuck about it as much anymore.

Speaker 1: 1:40:24

So porn, yeah, same thing. Porn or jerking off or whatever it is that you're wanting to cut down on. Have something else that you replace it with, have a higher purpose, and if you don't have that, you can build that. But One of the higher purposes that you have and my fucking God, that was a good segue was going out onto the front lines and cold approaching. So talking to women, hitting on women that you didn't know, and you phrased it best, man. You said being out there, trying to talk to women, like being out on the front lines, as we call it, just going outside is a form of therapy. So how was it therapeutic for you?

Speaker 2: 1:40:56

It was therapeutic in that way that.

Speaker 2: 1:40:59

So I had some insecurities that I didn't really know I had, but when I went out there I realized that just people looking at me and stuff that was bothering me because I was thinking, are they gonna be watching if I go and talk to this girl or if I go ask this stranger for a photo shoot, or like a five dollar five dollars for taking a photo of them or whatever kind of approach I was trying to do.

Speaker 2: 1:41:21

It was just like it was really eye opening going out first couple of times, just because, like, it felt like I was just going through a one hour therapy session where, yeah, okay, now I got this insecurity, now I can work with this and now I can see how I can overcome this thing.

Speaker 2: 1:41:37

And then maybe this, there's this other thing about yeah, just excuses regarding, let's say, the weather, which I often said that it's not perfect condition, so I cannot like I want things to be perfect and that's why I'm like putting these things on myself, which can, which can Like influence a lot of other things that I'm doing in terms of, let's say, doing the, let's say going on dates, like of wanting things to be perfect there and stuff. So it's like it really started to flow into different parts of my life, at least the things that came up there. I realized okay, so realize this thing has been holding me back and this thing and this thing probably, and now I can start tackling those. So I think that's actually the main benefit I got from starting to go out on the front lines Is the mental aspect of like trying to like get, get this, this insecurity I might have had, and trying to work on that afterwards.

Speaker 1: 1:42:31

Yeah, it's like you're cleaning up all the crap that's in your head. Maybe crap isn't a word, but all the like limiting beliefs and the stories and the narratives and stuff like that. And that applies to literally every goal. By the way, like for anyone listening, if your goal is I don't know losing weight, it's gonna be therapy. And you think, like I just walk a little bit and eat a little bit less, like, yes, it is that simple, but what we're saying is, in the process of losing weight, some things might come up. You might go to the gym and you go oh, just go to the gym, yeah, no, just walk on the treadmill.

Speaker 1: 1:43:01

You go to the gym, you start walking on the treadmill and then voices come into your head, things that you've never dealt with before, you've buried. You know, you look around, you go does everyone else think that I'm fat and I shouldn't be here? Like all these other people are so beautiful, I don't deserve to be here. Like I had all of those insecurities in the gym for like years. It took me years to process all of that shit. You know you might go outside to talk to women and and I went through this all thoughts of all these sort of thoughts of like I'm not good enough, I don't deserve to do this. People are going to watch. People are going to think I'm a freak, I'm not allowed to do this. What if I get arrested? Do I really deserve to do this? What am I even going to do? If I get a phone number? I'm gonna. I'm not interesting, I'm gonna fuck the data. Why would she even talk to me? Why would any woman want to talk to me? All of this shit can come up. I'm a loser. I should just go home. I'm not even social. Why am I trying to do this?

Speaker 1: 1:43:46

All of that shit comes up and that's a beautiful chance, like you said, to have therapy, to work through that shit, because I promise you and you know, we both promise you that on the other side of that is freedom. There's something fucking magical If you can work through all of those insecurities that maybe you never even knew you had. And they come up with every goal, like learning to make money or trying to make money. Oh, my god, I have more insecurities, or I had more insecurities about money than anything else I've ever done. Like all of these thoughts of like I've always been the poor kid. I've never had any money. I've always had debt. I don't deserve to do this. Other people can be rich, but I'm not allowed to. Who do? I think I am having money? Like what the fuck do? I think I'm special. Like all of that shit comes up and it's such a beautiful chance for therapy.

Speaker 1: 1:44:31

But I think a lot of people have those voices come up with those insecurities come up at the start. They freak out because those things can be a little bit if you're not expecting them. They can be a little bit like Holy shit, what's going on. And people listen to those voices and they go fuck this, I really shouldn't be in the gym, I'm gonna go home now. I'm definitely not good enough to talk to women. I'm too short, I'm too this, I'm too old, I'm too this, I'm gonna quit. And so a lot of people quit very early because of those insecurities. But understand that those insecurities they may well come up and it is a beautiful chance to, I guess, learn to love yourself.

Speaker 2: 1:45:06

Yeah, actually on that, I remember there was one thing that came up. Probably one of the major things was that it was that spotlight effect that I felt, but it was because, like I realized, as in the small lights on you, like everyone's talking about you, yes, kind of.

Speaker 2: 1:45:21

And it actually it brought me back to when I was in high school and I was not thinking that the autistic part of me could be a superpower back then. So I was thinking I'm that weird kid that doesn't know how to make friends, that's feeling lonely right now and stuff. So it feels like when I was out on the front lines I kind of felt like that loner again. I was just walking around. So it actually made me start to become good friends with my former self and forgiving my former self, because I was like beating myself up one day where I was thinking I wish that person would have done more. But then I realized, you know, actually I'm actually in a very good spot right now. I'm getting way better results than most people. So I'm actually very grateful for what that person did, like what my former self did. But I didn't realize that till like way into the coaching.

Speaker 1: 1:46:12

Yeah, I remember, yeah, yeah, After that I was just yeah, no worries.

Speaker 2: 1:46:17

Then during the coaching I was thinking you know actually why I've been. I've been like trying to push my that part of myself away. It's like that shy, autistic kid that I was, or Asperger's kid back then. He's actually done a lot, he's he's gone quite a good job. So I don't feel like there's no reason to to judge him for anything that he didn't do back then.

Speaker 1: 1:46:39

Yeah, I remember saying that to you. I was like, dude, like everything you have now is because of that past. You Like, literally, you wouldn't be here right now, you wouldn't have all of the abundance, the joy, the beauty, everything you have in your life, if it wasn't for that kid. And so, like, why the hell are you beating up your past self? Like you owe, you don't owe, but like it might be a nice thing to say thank you to your past self. And I went through the same stuff too.

Speaker 1: 1:47:05

I for a while judged myself for being depressed, for being in abusive relationships, for cheating, for like all of that stuff. And I was like I'm a bad person. I got negative karma, I was stupid and wrong and bad and evil and all of that. And it's like motherfucker, I was just trying to do my best. And that was a realization that you had. You were like that kid was just trying to do his best, like he was literally doing the best he could. If you could have done better, you would have.

Speaker 1: 1:47:32

Nobody intentionally fucks up their life, even if it looks like they are. Like nobody wants to be miserable, even if they seem like they want to be miserable. People want to do the best that they can and that's all they're fucking capable of. So that was a huge realization. I think something that maybe ties into that was you had this sort of story that I'm not going to be good enough and I'm not going to be like worthy of love, I guess, until I hit some magical point where I'm like super elite. Basically, you had this like crazy notion that I have to become like a God in every area and then maybe I deserve forgiveness, then I deserve love. So how was that like unburdening that and realizing, no, I'm allowed to have love right now, I'm allowed to love myself, I guess, which was something that we encouraged you to do?

Speaker 2: 1:48:21

Yeah, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:48:23

I think it's back to just putting very high expectations on myself and probably this whole age of social media where I'm seeing like people younger than me now doing better than me, and then I'm comparing myself to them and thinking I am still a few years behind them and they might be 24 or something like that, but what I'm, what the backside of that coin is, they're like one in a million or something like that. Yeah, like they they are. I can get to that level, but it's just going to take a bit more time for me, because I had different things to that I struggled with when I was younger. Maybe they had, just they were, they got lucky with like a specific path they took. They worked hard also, but then like everything in combination just made them that person at 24. Whereas for me I can still become like a person where I feel like I'm I'm, I'm good enough, like I'm worthy of love. I'm already worthy of love now, but back then I felt like I needed to completely erase before I could actually give myself that.

Speaker 1: 1:49:22

But I realized that even then.

Speaker 2: 1:49:23

I don't need that now.

Speaker 1: 1:49:25

Even then, you'd probably just move the goalposts and say, yeah, but I'm older than them. So, yes, I've achieved everything they've achieved, but I'm older than them. They did it earlier than me, so I'm still not good enough. So now I need to do double what they've done because I'm older, and then you'll achieve all of that and you go yeah. But look at this other kid over here who's younger than me and has done more than all of this. And then you'll do double again and you go yeah. But this, this guy's a billionaire. Elon Musk is like has like $200 billion and I don't. So I'm not good enough. You just you play that game forever, Like there is always.

Speaker 1: 1:49:55

This took me a while to wrap up my head around, but I did an article about this where I said, like am I the best person that a woman has ever had? Basically, am I the best person on the planet? He asked it's like no, like no. I'm not going to be the best sexual partner that a woman has ever had. I'm not going to be the best friend that a friend has ever had. I'm not going to be the best coach on the internet. I'm not going to be the best YouTuber. I'm not going to be the most interesting person. I'm not going to change the most amount of lives, I'm not gonna make the most amount of money. I'm not going to have the best fashion. I'm not gonna be the most interesting. I'm not gonna be the funniest Like I will lose in every single thing. And even if I did win something like even if I was like Olympic gold medalist or something and I was like objectively the best person on the planet someone 50 years from now is gonna beat me Like they just will.

Speaker 1: 1:50:41

And so like my goal isn't to be the best, it's not possible but what I can do is I can be the best me. Nobody else on this planet will ever exist and be me and nobody ever has existed and been me. And so it's my journey and my unique journey. In other words, we're all a special little snowflake, but we literally have our own path to walk and let's just walk that as well as we possibly can, Giving ourselves permission to suck, and it doesn't have to be perfect. You don't have to max yourself out. I used to talk about that Like let's max ourselves out. It's like you're not gonna maximize yourself, Like that's just impossible. You'd need infinite time, but we're just trying to do the best we goddamn can. Everybody lives life at their own pace. We all have our own journey. Love yourself and give yourself a big kiss and a big hug and all of that stuff. And yeah, like you definitely embrace that shit.

Speaker 2: 1:51:30

Yeah, and I think the happiness part it was just a bit of a side effect of me, like realizing that I'm currently doing as much as I can and I'm doing the stuff I want to do, like improving my dating life and then also making a bit of money with photography. So, like, what else should I do in order to like be worthy of love if I'm not worthy of love now I am?

Speaker 2: 1:51:54

doing the absolute most I can to quote unquote make myself worthy of love. So we realized why not just give it to me now, like I'm absolutely worthy of that?

Speaker 1: 1:52:05

Yeah, happiness and love, but let's just focus on love for a second. Sorry, let's just focus on happiness for a second. Happiness is our default state. We just put a bunch of conditions and shit in the way, we put a bunch of barriers, we put a bunch of stories and narratives, and so I love what you said there. It's like you essentially said.

Speaker 1: 1:52:23

I kind of just accidentally became happy once. I took all the pressure and the stories in the bullshit. Basically, once I took the chains off myself and said, oh, I'm allowed to be happy right now. I don't have to wait until I'm elite or I don't have to wait until I've had sex with 50 women. I don't have to wait until I've made a million dollars. I don't have to wait until I have all these friends. I don't have to wait until I've lost weight and I have a perfect body and everyone loves me and I'm so cool Like I don't have to do any of that shit or I can do that shit, that shit's beautiful. But I'm allowed to be happy right now while I do this stuff. Like nobody's stopping me from being happy, apart from the story that I told of.

Speaker 1: 1:53:01

I'm not allowed to be happy until I do all of that stuff and we twisted around in our head and we say, no, no, no, I'll be happy once I've done that shit. What you're actually saying is I'm not allowed to be happy until I've done all that shit. You're sort of or maybe another way of saying it is, you're procrastinating your happiness, You're pushing it into the future and saying, when I get to that point, then I'll worry about happiness, I'll figure out happiness, then I'll just be happy then because I've done all that shit, but I'm gonna push that away. It's like I'm gonna procrastinate it and I'll worry about it. Then. Why don't you just let yourself do it right now? And sometimes that can be easier said than done, of course.

Speaker 1: 1:53:35

But yeah, the number of people that I've worked with, and me myself as well when I just let go of all of the narratives and all of the things I think I should do or I have to do or I must do, when I let go of all of that bullshit and it is bullshit I'm just happy. It's like my happy default state. Love is our kind of default state. We feel love, we feel gratitude, we feel happiness. When we take all of those conditions away, we are all unconditional love, like essentially you can all feel unconditional love and if that doesn't resonate for people, okay, you can be happy. But you kind of wanna remove all of that shit that we add on top.

Speaker 2: 1:54:15

Yeah, and I feel like also, when you do feel a lot of self-love, like I do right now, it also makes everything a lot easier.

Speaker 2: 1:54:25

Because, you're just coming from a place of I wanna do this. I don't have to force myself to do this in order to get to a place where I love myself. I'm just like I'm just gonna meet this person, go on the stage because I love myself. I wanna give myself this gift and I wanna give this love to others also. And the same with, like, making money with photography. As I was coming from a place at that point of actually self-love, I wanna give myself this gift of making the $500 and I wanna show the group that this can be done and I wanna yeah, just, it's kind of like that saying of if you are starving or you're thirsty yourself, you don't, you can't really like, you don't wanna share the water you have, but if your glasses are already full, you're already, you're not really thirsty anymore you can more easily give that to others. It's kind of how I feel with the perception change of self-love versus not having self-love.

Speaker 1: 1:55:22

Yeah, and it's one of the things we push hardcore in the coaching program when you already know this. But like, when someone signs up, we have a platform that has a bunch of videos and a bunch of courses and a bunch of books and stuff like that that we get people to watch, and I don't know if you remember I mean you still have access to the platform. But like, the first 10 videos are essentially about mindset and self-love, like like literally the first 10 fucking videos that we get people to watch. It's not like how do I make money? We have those. They're just like kind of further down. How do I get laid? They're further down. Like the first fucking 10 or 15 videos are like how do I love myself? Like, how do I learn to like myself and then eventually love myself? How do I get to a point where taking action is effortless?

Speaker 1: 1:56:05

My coach, one of my coaches, drills into me all the time take effortless action, learn to love yourself. You know, focus on being happy, focus on peace, focus on being present, and then the action kind of just takes care of itself. You don't have to use force, you don't fucking need motivation. What the fuck motivation do you need to do something you want to do or something that you love or something that you're excited to do. I couldn't stop you doing something that you want to do.

Speaker 1: 1:56:29

And you phrased all of this really well where you said it's starting to sink in that I'm living this amazing life that the average person would dream of. In essence, this is the magical promised land of asking myself what do I actually want? And then going after it and getting it. It's that key phrase there, like asking yourself what do I want, rather than saying I have to do this or I need to do this or I should. I should go and talk to women, I should lose weight, I know I should make more money. No, like, what do you actually want? And that's where this effortless, loving sort of action comes from.

Speaker 2: 1:57:02

Yeah, actually I think just to add to that also, I went onto the platform yesterday and then I saw you had made a video in regards to actually moving on from getting laid and I didn't realize that it's probably existed for a few weeks in there. But a week ago I went down to like a nearby park with a lake and I just sat there with a journal for 30 minutes like wrote out what do I actually want? Really started to drill into that question, oh man, and I realized now I'm gonna interrupt you for half a second.

Speaker 1: 1:57:32

I literally just added cause we're always adding more video materials to the coaching program. I just added one today called your Perfect Day Motivation. Fucking, listen to that one With what you're. The whole point of that is like ask yourself. It's literally an exercise to figure out what do I actually want, not what I think I'm supposed to have, not what other people will judge me for and tell me that video is everything you're talking about. I know I just interrupted, but like holy shit, literally that video is like yeah yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:57:58

I'll make sure to check that out. I sat at the lake.

Speaker 2: 1:58:00

Yes. So I sat at the lake and I just wrote things down like in terms of what do I want to focus on going forward and what I care about now? And I realized now. So I watched the video that you and Cam you had talked about or when you were discussing like moving on from getting late, and I realized for me now I really want to spend time building an elite body and also pushing the making money with photography.

Speaker 2: 1:58:21

More than getting late, which I joined the coaching, of course, that was the main focus to get late. But I realized now some of the main things I wanted to get out of getting late was, in a way, just feeling good enough about myself actually giving myself that self love. I realized that was kind of a gateway into that. So now I'm like you know I have the space now just to I can enjoy sex, because that's kind of automatic right now in terms of I always have. At least if I don't do anything, I'll still have a date every week pretty much right now, and then I can actually put more time to going to the gym, maybe try other avenues of making money with photography. So I'm really feeling that during the fall and winter. I want to focus more on that. And then I just realized you had put out that video and you were talking about this exact thing that I'm feeling, and also the perfect day now that I can go check out.

Speaker 1: 1:59:10

Yeah, man, these topics are so useful. So I was having this conversation with Imogen like a couple of days ago, where I said to her do you know, like if I was to redo the Tinder guide and for anyone listening who doesn't know what that is I wrote a really long, in-depth, completely free, 130,000 word Tinder guide, which just it's insane. I look back and I cannot believe I wrote that goddamn thing. It's so freaking long. And I was saying to her, if I was to rewrite the Tinder guide, which I might do at some point, I would emphasize self-love as the most important thing above all else when it comes to dating relationships. But even something like just getting late I say just getting late but having sex, getting late and having sex.

Speaker 1: 1:59:53

I think I am very confident now in saying, at least for myself and all of the clients that I've seen, which at this point is like quite a lot of clients self-love is the thing that improves. If all you care about is getting late, improves that more than anything else. Appearance obviously is super important. Having great Tinder pictures? Yes, absolutely, but I am almost ready to argue not that I'd ever argue, but I'm almost ready to put forth that self-love matters more than those things or has more of an impact, gets you late more and you enjoy the process more and you connect to the women or the people that you're sleeping with even more and you don't have ruts because you wanna keep going, because you feel like you love yourself. There's less neediness, you don't care about rejection. In fact, you don't even see it as rejection anymore because you're not taking it personally, because the person that loves themselves cannot, can never be rejected. Like why would you be rejected? You just see the other person is having different preferences and you go. Well, I love myself and the fact that you don't wanna sleep with me and you've told me that that's fucking beautiful, because that's you loving yourself. You're acting with integrity and doing what you want and not doing what you don't want. Hey, isn't that beautiful Two people loving themselves and going after what they want or they don't want.

Speaker 1: 2:01:02

And so I honestly am at the point where I'm probably ready to put this out there and say I think self-love actually improves your odds more than anything else. Even I would almost even go so far as to say, if you're someone that's like morbidly obese and you might think, oh, the thing that's gonna help me get laid the most is losing weight. I would almost say like self-love first. Make losing weight 10,000 times easier. It'll make you want to lose weight. It'll make you want to talk to the opposite sex. It'll make you start talking to them right now, instead of thinking I have to lose all this weight first and then I can start talking to them. So, yeah, I think I'm really gonna change. I don't know if I'll redo the Tinder guide, but I think I wanna like emphasize that more as something that's unbelievably helpful and I'm confident with that. Now that we've done I don't know like maybe 50 clients that we've just focused so hardcore on self-love, like makes such a massive difference.

Speaker 2: 2:01:56

Yeah, I think for me it really like the combination of working on all the internal stuff in the beginning and also optimizing my Tinder profile and playing the numbers game super hard. That's really what supercharged my results and it wasn't before. Like I mentioned, I had that breakdown. I realized I should come at this from a different angle than just only trying to push like purely the Tinder numbers game side. But when I started to get the internal side handle, that's when I really that's what allowed me to have free new laces and four days, for example, and all the other stuff I did to open up to my mother and have this like improve the relationship with my parents. Now, basically, all the things I achieve starting to lose weight, making money with photography, the whole list so that it's like this invisible foundation that when you get that handled, it just aids everything so much more.

Speaker 1: 2:02:46

Everything is 10,000 times easier. And the actions that used to take you all the willpower in the world to do because you were trying to use force, you were trying to use motivation, you were trying to get yourself fired up, you were trying to make yourself do it through like shame, guilt, anger, fear, beating yourself up. When you instead employ or, I guess, practice self love, you don't have to use any of those things you now want to do the thing. Your goal is sort of like a magnet, and this is what I talk about in the podcast that I'm referring you to, that members only podcast. It becomes like a magnet. Self love is like a magnet that just like pulls you towards your goal, like you can't help but be successful, like you really just got. There's less friction, there's less work, there's less effort, there's less, there's no suffering, or at least very little suffering. So it really makes a big difference. And if somebody is listening or going, well, your big, beautiful hippies, that sounds wonderful. But how do I love myself? Obviously, you know, in the coaching program that's gonna be my first suggestion. But if you can't afford coaching, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 2:03:45

I would start with writing a list of 50 things about yourself that are likable and take your time with this. You don't have to do this in one day, though plenty of people have. You could take a year or two to make this list. Just slowly add things over time, but start with that. Basically, what we're doing there is building a little bit of self esteem and showing yourself oh, I am okay, like I'm decent. A second thing you can do is looking in the mirror every day and just saying to yourself, like you, look into your own eyes and you say I love you and don't have any expectations with this. Just sort of see what happens as if it's confronting. If you can't do it, if you have thoughts in your head of like this is gay, I'm not doing this, that's okay. Like stick with it if you want to. If you don't want to, that's cool too. But there's all these sort of exercises that can help you build that loving relationship with yourself.

Speaker 1: 2:04:32

There's a really good book called I Need your Love. Is that true? And basically one of the premises of this book is we often sit there and want love or validation or affection or sex or whatever from other people, but they were not willing to give it to ourselves. Isn't that a little bit hypocritical in a way, or a better way of phrasing that is wouldn't it be more efficient to just go straight to the source, like, if I'm sitting here going, I wish somebody would love me. It's like, well, I'm sitting here 24 seven with myself. What if I just gave myself a little bit of love? And this book has a lot of like actionable steps of how to do that. But yeah, I would start with those three things. So I need your love. Is that true? Do the mirror therapy every day, say I love you to yourself in the mirror and write like 50 things that are likable to yourself. Do you have anything that you'd add on top of that for a little bit of that?

Speaker 2: 2:05:19

I've done the. Yeah, I've done the. I love your exercise quite a bit before and it can be really confronting in the beginning when you actually you face yourself just look at yourself.

Speaker 1: 2:05:28

I couldn't do it. The first few times my coach gave it to me I was like I can't fucking do this. This is gay, this is scary. I can't do this. Weird, I can't do this. Yeah, it was really difficult for me.

Speaker 2: 2:05:37

Yeah, but it really helps over time, I think, when you can stand there like I'm just standing there smiling. I don't really do it much anymore, but occasionally I'll do it and just like have some fun with it and I'm just smiling and looking at the, the person I've become, all the, all the things. I've basically achieved and I'm just happy, like I'm really grateful when I do this exercise now and it's when it was terrorized, compared to when I was terrorizing in the beginning, when I could barely do it myself.

Speaker 1: 2:06:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:06:05

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:06:06

Yeah, it's basically checking in with yourself, cause it's funny that we live 24 seven as this, as like ourselves, but we've never actually like, looked at the man or the woman in the mirror and said like wait, do I even like you? And yet we walk around in this vessel with this brain and this soul like 24 seven and we never really check Like, do I actually like? Do I like the person that I'm stuck with for my entire existence? Do I like that person? And if you don't, hey, that's something you can work on. But I would just start with checking. Let's start the process of wrapping up. Where do you think you would be if you hadn't signed up for coaching?

Speaker 2: 2:06:49

I think I would probably. So let me just take you back one year, because there my summer was. I was thinking this is going to be the summer where I focus on dating and I'm going to do some self-improvement. I had your free guide. I thought about signing up for coaching, but I actually didn't last year, so I just decided to try to wing it myself. I got like barely any results and I was actually mightily disappointed. I felt like I wasted the summer.

Speaker 2: 2:07:13

So during the springtime, here I was thinking I wanted to make some money with photography, like I mentioned. So I took that course back in the springtime, didn't make much money, but I realized I can't really ignore the stating goal that I have anymore. I really want to push that to the max when we hit the summer. So I decided I'm like you're probably going to be able to do that. Probably you have the content that resonated the most for me in terms of dating. So I didn't really care. Well, I care to some extent what it cost, but what I paid was like that's just basically a fraction of like the value I got back from the results I got.

Speaker 2: 2:07:51

And if I were to do this myself, would probably like yeah, let's say I didn't do the coaching this summer. I guess I probably would have gotten maybe slightly better results, but I wouldn't have been able to probably sleep with three girls in four days, go on 34 dates, actually make money, with photography on the side, when it wasn't even why I came to you. Like there's so many things that happened here, the relationship with my parents, all the things we've gone over Like that wouldn't have happened. Probably Maybe I would have gone on a couple of dates, had some fun there, but I would probably still have the feeling of I could have done more with some help and some direction here. So I feel like the amount of money I put into it compared to the time I would have wasted otherwise, there's like no question about it. I would do it all over again if I had to.

Speaker 2: 2:08:40

Like if I didn't do it.

Speaker 1: 2:08:43

What would you say to someone that's on the fence about signing up for coaching?

Speaker 2: 2:08:48

I would say try to think just about that argument of time versus money, because time is ruthless, it's just gonna pass by, years are gonna pass by.

Speaker 2: 2:08:57

You'll suddenly it's suddenly five years have passed and maybe you were sitting there thinking, oh man, I could have probably improved on this when I was 28,. Now I'm 33. And then, yeah, now if I just invested in maybe getting a coach that could point me in the right direction, that trajectory I can't say the first trajectory it's just like you get exponential results if you go in the right direction, compared to if you just like take the wrong path or you don't have any direction. So I think it's just important to value your time compared to like you can probably I don't know your money situation, talking to the audience out there but if you think you can actually just do a payment plan or like in any way have the money to do it, I would recommend you to do it because compared to the time you're gonna waste otherwise, it's just there's just no argument for why you would not do it. I would say, if you're on the fence about doing the coaching, I love that.

Speaker 1: 2:09:56

What's next for you? What are the goals you're gonna work on?

Speaker 2: 2:10:00

I'm gonna cut down to 10% body fat primarily. That's what's motivating me the most right now. I'm around 14%, I would say right now. So it's probably I still have a few kilograms to lose. Then I wanna start gaining some more muscle and I wanna push this photography thing forward.

Speaker 2: 2:10:18

And of course, I have the dating thing. But it's like, as I mentioned, it's more or less automatic. Now I'm just I haven't actually been on Tinder the last couple of weeks because I had so many leads from the coaching Like that I'm still seeing and I'm still going on more dates with. So I think I slimmed down the Excel sheet from 13 girls to seven, which are all girls that I've been on, dates on and stuff. So it's been like I've had way more dates that I've had the time and energy for. So now I'm more in terms of the dating side. I'm focused, focusing on quality versus quantity, which I did. The quality thing was just when I started the coaching, but now I realize I have a couple of girls that I really enjoy and I wanna spend more time with them as opposed to constantly going out and meeting new girls.

Speaker 2: 2:11:03

But yeah, it's mainly I've shifted yeah, I've mainly shifted my focus to I wanna build and lead body now and also make more money with photography. See where that can take me if I keep putting my time and energy into that.

Speaker 1: 2:11:16

Hell yeah, my man Any final shout outs.

Speaker 2: 2:11:21

Well, I just wanna shout out the guys in the groove because I feel like the. I was about to say brotherhood, I know you're also taking in women now.

Speaker 1: 2:11:30

We got some ladies in the coaching room now. Yeah, we got some ladies.

Speaker 2: 2:11:33

There was one that joined just when I was leaving the group, but yeah, they're just the group you would love her to be.

Speaker 1: 2:11:38

It's my God like she has fit in so perfectly. You would love her to be yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:11:42

You can talk to her there in.

Speaker 1: 2:11:43

Discord obviously, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:11:44

Actually, she just added me in Facebook so I'll probably at some point get to talk to her also. But yeah, I got a really nice vibe for her and I feel like just the group is just like this really safe place that you go to. It's not only like the coaches will give you feedback, but just reading the other guys posts and like that gave me a lot. Just seeing like their questions, struggles and wins and it motivated me. It answered some of my questions, it encouraged me to post more when people were posting a lot and just the yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:12:14

I still have the accountability partners, tnm, from the group, which I'm talking to tomorrow. Also, I think they'll be quite excited to hear about my the podcast with you today and the things that has happened over the week. So, yeah, I would just shout out those guys and say that I'm very grateful for the coaching and all the guys I met during the group. My time in the group. It's been a great time and I made some great friends there. Hell yeah, man.

Speaker 1: 2:12:43

It's been quite a journey. I'm very grateful that you've come on this journey. I'm very grateful for you obviously sitting down with me for over two freaking hours to record this. I appreciate your time. I have a lot of love for you. You've done a hell of a lot and I can't wait to see where you go in the future. I'll obviously talk to you in the Discord group and yeah, man, I'm so excited. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 2:13:06

Yeah, thank you a lot. I mean you've really changed my life and it's been a blast to be in the group and I'm also glad we got to talk to today. It was nice to run through everything again, All the nice experiences I've had and all the self-improvement I've done.

Speaker 1: 2:13:21

Hell yeah man.